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MatPlus.Net Forum Competitions Birthday Tourney Udo Degener 64 and Mirko Degenkolbe 60
 
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(1) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Wednesday, Feb 8, 2023 17:16]

Birthday Tourney Udo Degener 64 and Mirko Degenkolbe 60


Birthday Tourney Udo Degener 64 and Mirko Degenkolbe 60

On the occasion of the 64th birthday of UD (23.11.2023) and the 60th of MD (14.5.2024) we announce a tourney in six sections:

a) #2
b) #3
c) Moremovers #4-n
d) Selfmates s#4-n
e) Helpmate Moremovers h#4-n
In sections a-e twins and zeros allowed but no fairy pieces or conditions.
f) Fairy (#2, #3, #n, h#, s#, r#, series) for problems with UD and MD.
UD = Unschlagbarer Drache, uncaptereless Dragon (Knight + Pawn)
MD = Marine Dame, siren (moves like a Queen, captures like a Locust).
No other fairy pieces or conditions allowed, both types of pieces (UD and MD) should be used in the problem.

Judge: U. Degener und M. Degenkolbe

Send your problems (with diagram, solution, address) up to 23.11.2023 to the tourney director: Hans Gruber, Lindauer Straße 10a, D-86399 Bobingen, Deutschland
or (preferred) hans.gruber@ur.de

The preliminary decision will be published early May 2024, the final judgement will be sent 14.5.2024.

Prize fund 1200 Euro (in each section four prizes of 100, 50, 30 and 20 Euro)
 
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(2) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Wednesday, Feb 8, 2023 17:32]

I like the fun idea of including the two thematic pieces UD & MD. I suppose that "uncaptureless" means "uncapturable".

Drache (= dragon) is defined in PDB as combination of knight & pawn, where the pawn can't promote.

That definition seems a bit feeble for something as mighty as a dragon, but then I wondered. There was a kind of cavalryman called a "dragoon". According to Wikipedia, "Dragoons were originally a class of mounted infantry, who used horses for mobility, but dismounted to fight on foot." This would have been a witty definition for the knight+pawn combo. There is no sense in which a dragoon (Dragoner in German) would be called a dragon (Drache in German).

Dragon is a promoted rook in Shogi (Japanese chess). And there was Dragonchess invented by Gary Gygax of Dungeons & Dragons fame. But neither have anything to do with knight+pawn.

So looking beyond these other uses of "dragon", I think there has been a mis-translation. Does anyone know what was the origin of the dragon = knight+pawn in fairy chess (play or compositions)?

Thanks,
Andrew
 
 
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(3) Posted by Joost de Heer [Wednesday, Feb 8, 2023 22:18]

The oldest compositions in Winchloe with a dragon are by T.R. Dawson from Reading observer 1912, so my guess is that he's the inventor. Whether it was a dragon or a dragoon, I have no idea.
There seems to be an online archive of RO at https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/titles/reading-observer/ but a search for 'Dawson drago(o)n' in the 1912 newspapers didn't give an article.

TR Dawson, Reading observer 1912
(= 3+1 )

#7

TR Dawson, Reading observer 1912
(= 4+1 )

#3
 
   
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(4) Posted by udo [Thursday, Feb 9, 2023 08:53]

Specification and examples for f)
see
http://www.schach-udo.de/pdf/turnier6460.pdf

UD
unschlagbar = uncapturable = piece tabou (Winchloe)
dragon = knight + pawn (without promotion)

MD
marine dame (moves like a Queen, captures and works like a Locust).
The definition follows page https://www.dieschwalbe.de/lexikon.htm#sectionM
 
   
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(5) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Thursday, Feb 9, 2023 09:04]

Or maybe the faster knight says to the slower pawn:
"Why I am stuck with you, you are just a drag-on!"
(Pun anticipated.)
 
   
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(6) Posted by Joost de Heer [Thursday, Feb 9, 2023 09:35]

 QUOTE 

UD
unschlagbar = uncapturable = piece tabou (Winchloe)
dragon = knight + pawn (without promotion)

Also no pawn move from the first rank, according to the definition in Winchloe.
Can a dragon capture a pawn en passant? Can a dragon capture a dragon en passant?
 
   
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(7) Posted by udo [Thursday, Feb 9, 2023 15:16]

Also no pawn move from the first rank, according to the definition in Winchloe.
yes


Can a dragon capture a pawn en passant?
yes (see 316147 winchloe)


Can a dragon or pawn capture a dragon en passant?
in this case no ( uncapturable dragon ), normally yes (see 23430 winchloe)


by the way: Mehrspänner/mehrere Lösungen (more solutions) also allowed in all sections (especially of course in h#).
 
   
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(8) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Friday, Feb 10, 2023 13:15]

No fan of idea that one engine imposes intepretation across the board for all fairy conditions and all orthodox but Ill-formed positions

Obviously pawns on the first rank can move, except specific conditions.
 
 
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(9) Posted by Sven Trommler [Friday, Feb 10, 2023 18:00]

Does somebody know how can I check an uncaptureable Dragon in "Popeye"?
 
 
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(10) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Feb 10, 2023 20:07]

piece white uncapturable dre4

E.g.:
begin
piece white ke8 sih4
black kg6
piece white uncapturable dre3
stipulation #1
end
 
   
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(11) Posted by Sven Trommler [Friday, Feb 10, 2023 20:55]

Thank you very much! It works!
 
   
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(12) Posted by Joose Norri [Saturday, Feb 11, 2023 22:58]

Andrew is right, of course a pawn on the first rank can move. Here you would have to stipulate that a dragon mysteriously loses part of its powers - in fact it loses 'pawnbeingness' - when it enters the first rank. Fair enough, if you so stipulate. But then, why does it not promote? It stays a dragon on the eight rank, but not on the first rank?!?
 
   
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(13) Posted by Joost de Heer [Sunday, Feb 12, 2023 09:02]

A pawn on the first and last rank is technically an undefined piece, so a dragon is a knight+an undefined piece on the first and last rank, and since movement of an undefined piece is not defined, it moves only like a knight.
How would promotion work with a dragon? Only promote when the dragon makes a pawn move to the last rank, and then promote to an Amazon/princess/empress/normal knight? Or to a queen/rook/bishop/knight?
 
   
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(14) Posted by Joose Norri [Monday, Feb 13, 2023 09:11]

That is one way to look at it. I think the dragon is a piece that combines the moving powers of knight and pawn, it is not knight and pawn combined. Well, dragon1 and dragon2. A bit like the one composite orthodox piece, the queen; a rook or bishop doesn't madrasify it. What about the dragon and the knight in Madrasi?
 
   
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(15) Posted by Joost de Heer [Monday, Feb 13, 2023 10:48]

If it's a combined piece like the queen, then promotion would make no sense (you can't castle with the rook-part of a queen either).
 
   
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(16) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Saturday, Feb 18, 2023 15:38]

Thanks Joost.

Rarely has a mot been more juste, than "dragoon" to describe a knight that can choose to dismount and move like a pawn. Such a silly mistranslation that has robbed us of this! TRD would have laughed a lot at this, I think.

And the rigidity with which some people stick to their prior interpretation would amaze me except I've been living among people for a while, so know how they can be. I am one myself.

And what a waste of the concept of "dragon", which should be way more awesome: at the very least a queen that can also leap along queen lines (flying) or snipe (breath weapon).
 
   
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(17) Posted by udo [Wednesday, Feb 28, 2024 08:09]

the preliminary awards are ready:
www.schach-udo.de

the h#-award will coming soon (currently being checked for anticipations).

send all claims by the end of march 2024 to me or Mirko
the tournament book will then be printed and sent to all participants in May.
 
 
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(18) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Thursday, Feb 29, 2024 05:51]

Now I have a copy of TRD’s 5 classics of fairy chess. It is definite that he invented the concept of dragon, and he makes no mention of dragoons. So there we are: it’s official.
 
   
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(19) Posted by udo [Wednesday, Mar 20, 2024 08:56]

the h#-award is ready
www.schach-udo.de

or directly
https://www.schach-udo.de/pdf/udmd_hm.pdf
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum Competitions Birthday Tourney Udo Degener 64 and Mirko Degenkolbe 60