MatPlus.Net

 Website founded by
Milan Velimirović
in 2006

19:47 UTC
ISC 2024
 
  Forum*
 
 
 
 

Username:

Password:

Remember me

 
Forgot your
password?
Click here!
SIGN IN
to create your account if you don't already have one.
CHESS
SOLVING

Tournaments
Rating lists
1-Jan-2024

B P C F





 
 
MatPlus.Net Forum General What is the origin of the Oudot Theme/Task and how it come to bear his name?
 
You can only view this page!
(1) Posted by James Malcom [Monday, Jan 31, 2022 07:02]

What is the origin of the Oudot Theme/Task and how it come to bear his name?


The Oudot Theme/Task is known by all and yet referenced by so few. Whether it is called a theme or task seems up in the air, though it seems to lean towards theme. Either way, it calls for three black queens promotions in an orthodox helpmate. It has not yet been achieved, although many fairies have done it. Here is one example of it being mentioned: https://helpman.komtera.lt/definition/Oudot_task

In fact, in Werner Keym's book "Out Of The Box", it is placed, on page 178, under his "Ten 100 Euro tasks": "6) Oudot task: dual-free one-line helpmate with promotions of three black pawns to queens"

I have always wondered about where this theme/task comes from, yet I cannot find anything solid about where it comes from. Nor can I find any mention of why it was named after the famed helpmate author Jean Oudot.

If his obituary, page 14, mentions anything I would not know, as it is in French: http://problem64.beda.cz/silo/themes_64_1974_76.pdf

The earliest instance of it I can find is Gerhard Pfeiffer's 1985 h#9, which has been improved over time by others. However, without access to the relevant 1985 Die Schwalbe issues (not to be found on http://www.kotesovec.cz/links0.htm), I can obtain no information from the problem. An odd fact is that it comes 11 years after Oudot's death. This gap leaves much to be questioned.

Gerhard Pfeiffer, 5258 Die Schwalbe 95 10/1985, h#9
(= 2+15 )


It is been mentioned several times in Die Schwalbe issues, such as 4/2007 and 10/2016.

The 2005 harmonie informal helpmate tourney says this about Reinhardt Fiebig's 2005 problem, P1087039, but it doesn't help either: "Eigentlich nur eine geschickte Version des 10sB-Problems von Gerhard Pfeiffer (Die Schwalbe 1985, Spezielle ehrende Erwähnung, PDB P0500863). Aber aus sportlichen Gründen (nur ein Bauer trennt uns nun von der Darstellung des Oudot-Themas!) sollte diese Stellung im Rahmen dieses Preisberichts dokumentiert werden – daher die ungewöhnliche Auszeichnung." It is readable here: http://www.problemschach.de/harmonie/informal/harmonie_hn_2005.pdf

The Oudot theme has inspired a few h=9, as harmonie 128 notes of a h=9 by René J. Millour: http://www.problemschach.de/harmonie/h128.pdf

Another reference point is the 2006 book Minimalkunst im Schach, previewable on Google books, which shows Ziak's P1276569 as #807, while the solutions also shows Wenda's P1110751: https://www.google.com/books/edition/Minimalkunst_im_Schach/6r8GM6mGd-wC?hl

But I cannot find a drop of a trace of its history. Henceforth, I call for a public manhunt and plead to all present to please rack your brains for all information possible. Even the minutest trace will help!

So far, I have colled 12 Oudot problems in PDB under the keyword "Oudot Theme".
 
(Read Only)pid=22211
(2) Posted by Joose Norri [Monday, Jan 31, 2022 07:31]

I think it should be helpmate in nine, exactly, since that is the minimum number of moves required. I don't know if it was formulated that way originally, but presumably it's doable with more moves (?), and then it's no longer an Oudot.

I seem to remember having come across the original challenge a few years ago, much to my surprise, but of course I can not remember where. But surely someone here does.
 
(Read Only)pid=22212
(3) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Monday, Jan 31, 2022 07:54]

There is nothing in the obituary in issue 76 concerning this Task, as far as I can see. Perhaps the memorial tourney in issue 77 mentions it? Can you correct the spelling to "Oudot", please?
 
 
(Read Only)pid=22213
(4) Posted by James Malcom [Monday, Jan 31, 2022 11:02]

Thanks Andrew, fixed.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22214
(5) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Jan 31, 2022 11:13]

@James: I look up the 1985 Schwalbe for you, just specify.
You can start by browsing for "Oudot" in the content list,
which is on the Schwalbe site...oh bother, you can't,
it starts 1992. Well, I also have the printed older ones :-)
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22215
(6) Posted by Joost de Heer [Monday, Jan 31, 2022 15:09]

3 queen promotions in any other genre than orthodox h# doesn't show the Oudot theme.

The keyword in PDB is wrong (Oudut-Theme).
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22216
(7) Posted by Arno Tungler [Monday, Jan 31, 2022 16:38]

With an obituary of Jean Oudot, feenschach brought in its issue No. 33 (April/May 1976) the following information that I have translated into English (my apologies for mistakes…)

“A few months ago we received a letter from Jean Oudot (probably the last he sent to feenschach) in which he drew attention to two tasks that had interested him for a long time. Here is the translation of his request:
"Est ce impossible?" (Is that impossible?) There are tasks which are very difficult to implement due to the limited possibilities, but which many problemists try to do in vain year in, year out, sometimes even dream of doing it.
Two of these "impossible problems" often bother me; I don't think they have been realized yet:
The first is the 3x promotion to bQ in a h#9. Each bQ after its promotion (one move) has to make two moves, one ortho and one diagonal (otherwise a R or a B would suffice = dual!) The other task is figurative: it is the complete "spiral" of the bR in a s#7 maximummer; his 1st move (= 1 step orthogonal) must be forced by check.
I would like ask all feenschach readers: Are these tasks possible? I have attached a scheme for each of the two tasks... but maybe you can't get them correctly that way? Of course, both schemes are multiply cooked.”

Those two schemes you can see in the scanned copy of the feenschach issue on Václav Kotesovec‘s great Site at http://problem64.beda.cz/silo/feenschach33_1976.pdf on Page 261.

The second task was later explored in a feenschach thematic tournament with a few correct versions of that task. However, the first Oudot task is not yet done, as far as I know.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=22217
(8) Posted by James Malcom [Monday, Jan 31, 2022 20:09]

Thank you Arno! This is surely the critical "missing link" in the timeline. I believe it is enough to clear the mystery for the most part.

Akin to Fermat's Last Theorem, Jean Oudot leaves us an unsolved challenge from beyond the grave. His last letter, miraculously shared by Feenschach, has become his lasting legacy. It resides in its very core.

I suspect that it began to be referred to as the "Oudot Theme/Task" after the Memorial Tournament that left his spiral rook chaallenge solved. His one last mystery was, more than likely, quickly viewed as difficult, if not outright impossible. Thus, within a few years perhaps, it formed a mythos that embedded itself in the collective conscience of the community.

As with most great challenges, I have no doubt it subsequently followed in the fairy form. An attempt at the true core of the challenge seems to not have been done until Gerhard Pfeiffer's 1985 demonstration. Since then it has cropped up, now and then, teasing and haunting. Jean Oudot lives on.

A natural follow-up question is when it was first referred to as such by name, if not an early mention. Perhaps future issues of Feenschach officially refer to it. Early fairy forms and pre-1985 tries are also of interest.

As for how to define the Oudot theme/task, it was clearly conceived as an orthodox helpmate with three black queen promotions. The minimum of nine moves is not so much a requirement as it is a consequence of geometry. Over time, as with many other terms, it has taken on further meaning. The general consensus seems to include fairy helpmates and illegal tries/schemes/demonstration helpmates that have three black queen promotions in them. While it may inspire helpstalemates and helpselfmates, they do not count.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=22218

No more posts


MatPlus.Net Forum General What is the origin of the Oudot Theme/Task and how it come to bear his name?