Website founded by
Milan Velimirović
in 2006

23:13 UTC
ISC 2022



Remember me

Forgot your
Click here!
to create your account if you don't already have one.

Rating lists


MatPlus.Net Forum General Minimal Material To Correctly Show A Theme In The #2
You can only view this page!
Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2
(21) Posted by Joose Norri [Monday, Jul 11, 2022 22:12]

In "20 years of Theme Vladimirov" (MatPlus 15/Autumn 1997) Milan writes:

Even with physically identical moves, there is a case when the pattern becomes trivial. This is, of course, mutual capture of white and black thematic pieces, implying the prefix "non-". Miniature has often been quoted as an miraculous example, but although it is a good problem with pointed tries threatening Qg8 and a good key 1.Qd8! (...), the impression is much better if two Vladimirov tries are not mentioned at all!! Such "non-Vladimirov" theme can be shown in at least 10 variations (Kf2 Qh1 Ra1 h8 Sd6 - Ka8 Ra7 b8 pe4 f5, 1.Kf2!).

So for Milan that goes for too.
(Read Only)pid=23465
(22) Posted by Rosie Fay [Tuesday, Jul 12, 2022 07:29]

I don't see how the first problem in post 16, (Werner Speckmann) shows Banny. Popeye gives the solution and try-play as:

1 Kf4? Kh2! a
1 Kf2? Kh4! b
1 Kf3! Kh2 a 2 Qg2#; 1 ... Kh4 b 2 Qg4#

(Letters are mine.) Black's refutations to White's two thematic tries do indeed return as defences after White's key. But Vladimirov and Banny require that White's mating moves be White's try-moves in some order, and they are not.

I am not aware of Banny being shown with fewer than 5 units.
(Read Only)pid=23466
(23) Posted by Rosie Fay [Tuesday, Jul 12, 2022 07:56]

The lightest Dombrovskis I know of is this one:
(= 3+1 )

Hans Gruber, Sächsische Zeitung, 5 Jun 1981
PDB P1013377

I'm intrigued at the statement that Roman can be shown with 4 units. I'm not aware of any directmate Roman of any length with fewer than 5. Mind you, PDB might have a 4-unit Roman which I failed to find because it isn't keyed as Roman.
(Read Only)pid=23467
(24) Posted by Jan Hein Verduin [Tuesday, Jul 12, 2022 09:20]

Reciprocal mate change with 6 pieces:

Reciprocal change has been done with five pieces, albeit with flight(s)-taking try & key:
(Read Only)pid=23468
(25) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Tuesday, Jul 12, 2022 10:06]

@Jan-Hein: Overlooked that because it wasn't tagged.
(Read Only)pid=23469
(26) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Tuesday, Jul 12, 2022 13:20]

Minimum not minimal, I think. Congrats to all! :)
(Read Only)pid=23470
(27) Posted by shankar ram [Tuesday, Jul 12, 2022 20:48]

I believe "Kontrawechsel" (which also incorporates the Banny theme) has been shown with 4 pieces.
See comment to
Does anybody know the problem?
(Read Only)pid=23471
(28) Posted by shankar ram [Tuesday, Jul 12, 2022 20:59]

My favourite example: A 4-piece mutate/perpetuum mobile #3 also showing a reciprocal change of 3rd move mates!

W.A.Shinkman, Tiffin Tribune, 1898, WKf4/WRg2/BKh5/BPh7, #3*

Set: 1...h6/Kh6 2.Rg1/Kf5 Kh4(x)/Kh5(y) 3.Rh1(A)/Rh2(B)#
1.Rg1! Zz
1...h6/Kh6 2.Rg2/Kf5 Kh4(x)/Kh5(y) 3.Rh2(B)/Rh1(A)#
(Read Only)pid=23472
(29) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Wednesday, Jul 13, 2022 06:43]

As pointed out by Joose Norri above, quoting from an article by MV, the 'authentic' Vladimirov can't display a mutual captures mechanism (these examples are just "non" (or 'pseudo'!?) Vlads...

A *correct one, and quite economic, with features pushing toward the "Ideal" - of the (say!?) Serbian School - is the fourth example in this online article (10 pieces)

EDIT: But the 'Vladimirov Paradox' was shown in Miniature form
(Read Only)pid=23473
(30) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Wednesday, Jul 13, 2022 08:58]

@Shankar: Speckmann's Tanagra collection alone has 4 examples
(albeit not #2). See e.g.

You could do a #2 Banny on a 9*>4 board, I bet someone did
that stunt before me (even with a twin: bishop<>nightrider):
(= 3+1 )

1.Ld5 A? Kd1 a! 1.Lf3 B? Kb1 b! 1.Ti1! aB/bA
1.Nb4 A? Kd1 a! 1.Ng3 B? Kb1 b! 1.Ti1! aB/bA
(EDIT obviously and unfortunately, the twin is cooked by Nd3+,
but you can simply shift the rook)
(Read Only)pid=23474
(31) Posted by shankar ram [Wednesday, Jul 13, 2022 13:10]

Yeah. I did. And it was anticipated too!
Victor Menichenko, Special Prize, Buletin Problemistic, 1978
WKg3, WQa6, WBb1, WPe2; BKg1, BPg2. (4+2) #2
1.Bd3? Kh1! (1...Kf1 2.Qa1#)
1.Be4? Kf1! (1...Kh1 2.Qa1#)
1.Qa1! (2.B~)
1...Kf1 2.Be2#
1...Kh1 2.Be4#
(Read Only)pid=23475

No more posts
Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2

MatPlus.Net Forum General Minimal Material To Correctly Show A Theme In The #2