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| (61) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Thursday, Mar 26, 2009 21:37] |
I thank for interesting comments and offers of Misha Mladenovic and Frank Richter. It is necessary to struggle not for statuses, and for composition development! Brazil repeats history of Bulgaria?
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| (62) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 10:46] |
There is the statement on the official PCCC page related to this issue:
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~stniekat/pccc/pcccfide.htm
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| (63) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 11:43] |
QUOTE
vierundsechzig / Mirko Degenkolbe (11:37:10 CET)
gib mal meinen vorschlag gleich mit weiter:
vierundsechzig / Mirko Degenkolbe (11:37:25 CET)
alle problemisten abstimmen lassen. das ergebnis ist dann endgültig.
vierundsechzig / Mirko Degenkolbe (11:37:41 CET)
das wäre die einzige demokratische lösung.
Mirko proposes to let all problemists vote and the result be definitive. He says that's the only democratic solution.
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| (64) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 11:57] |
Direct Democracy may work in a such small and well-educated
subset of the population, so much is granted, but how does
Mirko intend to *define* selfsame subset in the first place?
Possible, but as tricky as a Babson :-)
Hauke
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| (65) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 13:03] |
Who can define "all problemists"? I am composer, but I am not registered problemist in Croatian Chess Federation. Also, I established the third society for chess composition in Croatia, a selfstending society which is not a member of CCF (so and we are not members of FIDE). At last, I am not sure, am I chess problemist at all. :-)
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| (66) Posted by Guy Sobrecases [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 13:36] |
To vote? Very fine.
I did not know that Andrej Selivanov had resigned...but anyway I am a candidate for the position of VP for Chess composition in the Presidential board of FIDE. Looks like a fine job!
Of course, my experience in chess composing is small, but I have some very good will, speak fluently twelve languages, and have in my pocket a phenomenal IQ!!
I know more or less the chess rules, and, like my predecessor, I am ready to work hard, without personal ambitions (sic), for the development of the chess problem world on this planet. I have no project for that, but it does not matter. Trust me!!, and you will not be disappointed.
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| (67) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 14:13] |
Do not confuse the international organisation of a chess composition and FIDE.
PCCC wanted to be married with FIDE but remain a virgin and play the game following its own rules.
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| (68) Posted by Valery Gurov [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 14:21] |
Dear colleagues!
I entirely support a position of Miodrag Mladenovich(bravo!!!).
In my opinion PCCC is not the democratic organisation, and bureaucratical and inactive. I considered that Uri Avner as outstanding problemist will improve a situation and became even worse!
Here only short the list of scandals:
- the congress in Bulgaria has no taken place, the personal insult is put the greatest problemist Petko Petkov!
- WCCT has ended with scandal which has not ceased till now!
- WCCI in section helpmates has ended with scandal, but anybody has not noticed it!
- album FIDE 2001-2003 in fairy section has terminated in scandal!
What democracy? It is chaos, inactivity and a full incompetence !
You saw certificates which are received by world champions on a composition?
You saw certificates which are received by grandmasters and masters? In addition secretly and not solemnly, as they them have stolen that.
In my opinion, it is a shame…
Forgive me my bad English, in Russian I would tell much more strongly and more brightly!
Forgive me my bad English, in Russian I would tell much more strongly and more brightly!
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| (69) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 14:40]; edited by Sarah Hornecker [09-03-27] |
Please write in Russian, someone will translate it, I hope!
PS: Still got to no conclusion about the issue.
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| (70) Posted by Paz Einat [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 15:22] |
Dear Valery,
The points you have raised do not come even close to be described as scandals. These are issues that had to be dealt with by the president of the PCCC. You failed to mention the one real scandal:
[personal insinuation without proof! removed by Administrator]
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| (71) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 15:33]; edited by Juraj Lörinc [09-03-27] |
Paz, the problem as I see it, is that the issues mentioned by Valery, Misha, you or anyone else here (sorry for any omission) were dealt with in the unsatisfactory manner. I mean unsatisfactory for more than negligible number of people.
As some details came to me, even regarding the issues I have not been directly involved in, my view of some PCCC figures has deteriorated over time. On the other hand, I highly esteem some other PCCC figures - and that is it. I see both positive and negative points. However, some people feel more injustice and moreover for them high figures of PCCC impersonate PCCC itself and consequently, PCCC seems to them to be unfunctional as a whole. Name it any way you want - undemocratic, ill, dead, ...
In my view, PCCC should respond by improvement of processes that caused the dissatisfaction. For that, complaints should be heard, weak points identified and consequently improved.
Edit: added Misha and generalizing term :-)
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| (72) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 15:33] |
[personal offense! removed by Administrator]
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| (73) Posted by Administrator [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 15:36] |
Please, cool your heads down. This kind of mutual accusations leads nowhere!
Especially avoid personal accusation and offens. I will protect everybody from such insults by deleting incriminating sentences or posts.
Administrator
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| (74) Posted by Valery Gurov [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 15:43] |
Dear Paz,
Perfectly, at last that frank and intelligent statements have gone!
It is possible to name problems all that I have written. But they fixed documentary, on a paper. And about what you write is known from words only one person, told "very silently". Somebody brought to Andrey accusations? Or probably it was discussed on private meeting PCCC, as always is democratic?
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| (75) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 16:15]; edited by Vladimir Tyapkin [09-03-27] |
How come PCCC is not democratic? PCCC president and VP's are elected by its member countries. If you don't like the process you can build up support, elect a new president and implement your agenda. This would be a democratic way to fix problems and make PCCC better. It's much harder than staying on the side and putting blame on PCCC's decisions.
Don't forget, all the work in PCCC is done voluntarily and without pay. It's a rare gift to be a problemist of Uri's class. It's not fair to blame him and others for not being a politic, an organizer of the same caliber. It seems pretty clear that there is quite a difference in opinions on variety of subjects in this community. It is not easy to strike the right balance and make everybody happy.
Personal insults wouldn't make PCCC better. It would rather push away the remaining volunteers but hardly could improve anything.
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| (76) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 16:16] |
Juraj wrote:
QUOTE
Paz, the problem as I see it, is that the issues mentioned by Valery, Misha, you or anyone else here (sorry for any omission) were dealt with in the unsatisfactory manner. I mean unsatisfactory for more than negligible number of people.
I apologize if I offended anyone. I was trying just to comment on PCCC as an organization and not on the individuals.
I also think that there is an issue here that there is some other thread behind this one that only PCCC delegates can see. Jus to clerify, I do not have an access to the other thread so it's possible that some of my posts are missunderstood due to this fact.
I only expressed my opinion about the issues within the PCCC organization.
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| (77) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 16:16]; edited by Miodrag Mladenović [09-03-27] |
Once again I hit the "Submitt" button twice.
Not related to this thread, question for an admin? Is there any way to put some logic in code to prevent submitting post twice? Perhaps to compare post of the person with a previous post withing the same discussion thread and then if it's identical not to post it.
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| (78) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 16:27] |
Actually, for me the status is following:
- some PCCC processes does not function properly (-> issue)
- on the other hand, PCCC has mechanism and chance to improve (-> hope)
- some people are not working in the interest of the wider chess composition community, rather there are pursuing their own interests in the first place (-> issue)
- on the other hand, some people are working hard for the interest of the wider chess composition community in the first place (-> hope)
So the reservations might be and usually are both on functional and personal level and actually may be well founded, both. Nevertheless, this does not mean there is no hope for PCCC, rather the opposite, as I think everybody can find a lot of good output from PCCC work.
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| (79) Posted by Vladimir Tyapkin [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 17:04] |
Valery,
QUOTE
It is possible to name problems all that I have written. But they fixed documentary, on a paper
Can you send me links or documents that support your opinion? You can use 'Notes' feature and send it to me privately(and write in Russian). I'd like to make my own mind.
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| (80) Posted by Paz Einat [Friday, Mar 27, 2009 17:12] |
Yes Andrey, indeed I’m sick. I am sick of politics and intrigue.
Milan’s point is very well taken; we should use this forum in a positive way to advance our hobby. I will stick to this from now on.
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