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MatPlus.Net Forum General Dual avoidance & try in helpplay problems?
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(1) Posted by Julia Vysotska [Saturday, Sep 28, 2019 22:17]; edited by Julia Vysotska [19-09-28]

Dual avoidance & try in helpplay problems?

Could anybody, please, define the both terms in helpplay: dual avoidance and try?
Yes, yes, after publishing problems for about 7 years, I couldn't find the answer.
And the concrete examples, 2 in one day, pushed me to ask this question: & Dual avoidance or tries?
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(2) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Sunday, Sep 29, 2019 09:04]

My 50c: The terms make more sense in direct play -
White tries, Black avoids duals. Consequently, that
color scheme should also be used in help play.
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(3) Posted by Vitaly Medintsev [Sunday, Sep 29, 2019 10:54]

Helpmates are different (© Chris Feather).
Therefore no principles inherent in direct mates should be mechanically applied to helpmates!
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(4) Posted by Vitaly Medintsev [Sunday, Sep 29, 2019 11:05]

Hi Julia!

Below the article TRY IN HELPMATE (Encyclopedia of Chess Problems, p.441)
In a helpmate the composer may insert a try play in variety of ways: a side may seem to lack a tempo move, moves may have to be played in a correct order, etc.
Then, the composer may use a mechanism familiar from dual avoidance in direct mate problems: wrong choice of blocking unit, a pin of the mating piece, etc.

But it is not getting clearer, I guess :-)
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(5) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Sunday, Sep 29, 2019 13:12]

Chris Feather ("Black To Play"):

Attempts to introduce so called "tries" have from time to time been made by a variety of composers with inspiration from directmates. The difference is that directmate tries have refutations while helpmate "tries" simply don’t work, being a failure of cooperation. While directmate tries look to Black for resourcefulness, helpmate "tries" look to the solver for incompetence!
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(6) Posted by Nikola Predrag [Sunday, Sep 29, 2019 15:23]

how is that Feather's statement useful?
There are trivial questions and there are problems.
The answer to a trivial question could be laborious but still trivial so, there's no problem in the first place.
The solution to a problem is a principle, even if it's simple.

Some tries may be trivial and some may reveal an underlying principle.
Sequence of the moves is the answer to a stipulation.
What is relevant and what is not and why, that reveals the principle and the full solution to a problem.
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Dual avoidance & try in helpplay problems?