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1-Jul-2021





 
 
MatPlus.Net Forum X-Files: Anticipations Pam-Krabbe-Rochade, aka Extra-Long, Castling-Anticipated By 65 Years!
 
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(1) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Friday, Jun 7, 2019 15:41]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [19-06-07]

Pam-Krabbe-Rochade, aka Extra-Long, Castling-Anticipated By 65 Years!


We all know about Tim Krabbe's famous 1972 puzzle, published by Schaakbulletin, that features extra-long castling, otherwsie named Pam-Krabbe-Rochade castling. Just for old time's sake, here is the problem.

White To Play And Mate In Three

(= 9+6 )



The Solutions (Ripped From Wikipedia)

First Move: 1. e7

1... Kd3 2. e8=Q gxf3 (other moves allow Qe2#) 3. 0-0-0#
1... Kxf3 2. e8=R! (an underpromotion), and now:
2... d4 3. 0-0#
2... Kg2 3. 0-0-0-0#!


I decided to see if this problem was on the Scabwle PBD, and, sure enough, it is. The ID number is P1277303.
Here's a link: https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp


But then I noticed that it had the tag "Anticipated." What a surprise that was!

This anticipate problem is from 1907! This an anticipation by 65 years!

Here's that 1907 problem. The ID number is P1277302. Here's a link: https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=PROBID=%27P1277302%27&s=0

C. Staugaard, Skakbladet 11/1907

(= 5+2 )


The solution, of course if as follows: 1. e8=R Kxc2 2. 0-0-0-0#

What are your thoughts on this? I thought that I would bring this to everyone's attention, as this section of the forum does say that some anticipations do go unnoticed!

Also, just for fun, here is the shortest possible checkmate by extra-long castling. I found this myself. I previously turned it into a puzzle here on Puzzling Stack Exchange: https://puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/81808/find-those-chess-notations-4

The Game:

1. e4 d5
2. exd5 Kd7
3. d6 Kc6
4. Bb5+ Kxb5
5. c4+ Kxc4
6. dxe7 Kd3
7. Qe2+ Kc2
8. Qf1 Nf6
9. d4 Nfd7
10. e8=R h6
11. 0-0-0-0#!
 
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(2) Posted by Per Olin [Saturday, Jun 8, 2019 16:53]

One more anticipated problem:

Per Olin
Stella Polaris July 1973

(= 5+1 )

2#

Time wise this could have been inspired by the Krabbe problem. I have no memory of seeing that, but it could have been showed / mentioned in some meeting of the Finnish Chess Problem Society. What I vaguely remember is the following:

Author? Source?

(= 2+1 )

h#4

In an article in the magazine Suomen Tehtäväniekat, January 1994 I asked for author (Dawson?) and publication details, no response. The same question has been asked around one decade ago, probably here in Mat Plus Forum, no response. Question: can anybody trace the helpmate? - The solutions of both problems are obvious. - The chess rules of today say that castling is a move of the king and either rook of the same color along the player’s first rank; this was not the wording in the 70ies and earlier.
 
 
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(3) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Monday, Jan 4, 2021 03:52]

Per Olin, for the record, it turns that you indeed did ask it a decade ago already, but not here as you thought.

It was on the Retro Mailing List, back in 2009: https://pairlist1.pair.net/pipermail/retros/2009-February/002826.html

I took the liberty of putting it into the PDB server awhile back: https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/P1372814
 
   
(Read Only)pid=20374
(4) Posted by Per Olin [Monday, Jan 4, 2021 13:29]

Thanks! If the problem is nowhere to be found, then I must have dreamt it and attributed it by mistake to somebody else. Can I claim authorship?

Happy International Day of Chess Composition to everybody!
 
   
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(5) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Monday, Jan 4, 2021 17:40]

It certainly seems so. Only you know of it, so it must be yours. Fair is fair, after all!
 
 
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(6) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Monday, Jan 4, 2021 19:16]

A few more improved P-K versions (all AB+JM), for the task of PG ending in P-K mate.

(= 14+14 )
non-unique PG in 10.0 (-:
(0.5 shorter than prior version)
Just aiming for shortest P-K mate, without worrying about uniqueness.
However, this one *is* so nearly unique, maybe someone can manage to push it over the line?

(= 14+14 )
unique PG 10.5 non-standard material (-:
C+ up to 10.0, and I don't there are any alternative to P-K check(mate) for move w11.
(100% sounder than prior version)

(= 12+14 )
unique PG 11.5 23 Prenix (-:
C+ up to 11.0, and again, no apparent alternative to P-K check(mate) for move w12
(1.0 shorter than prior version)
This one is dedicated to the Danish composer, C.Staugaard, who did all this P-K stuff in 1907, before anyone else, but alas was not thereby immortalized.

We are using the newly invented "Transferable Dedication Mechanism" (TDM) which means that if this problem is no longer a record-holder, the composers reserve the right to remove the dedication and shift it somewhere else :-) Moreover, I wrote a sprawling story set in 1907 once, and if I ever go back and write it up again, I undertake (if I remember) to introduce C.Staugaard as a character somehow. Can't say fairer than that, Henrik? :-)

Is there any PG solving engine which can handle P-K castling?

Happy International Chess Composition Day!
 
   
(Read Only)pid=20377
(7) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Monday, Jan 4, 2021 19:40]

For reference, see Me and Andrew's earlier PG 12.5, along with the aforementioned cooked PG in 11.5, here-http://matplus.net/start.php?px=1609785368&app=forum&act=posts&fid=xshowr&tid=2402
 
   
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(8) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Jan 4, 2021 21:53]

@Rewan: Is in Ke1 Pe7-Ke8 the solution intended to be
1.Kf7 e8R 2.Kg7 O?O (Ke7 Re6) 3.Kh7 Kf7 4.Kh8 Rh6#?
In that case, please take a closer look, especially
at the castling rules, even if unconventional :-)
 
   
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(9) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Jan 4, 2021 22:15]

Oh, and another thing: I'm no good at SPG, but my creativity
is unsurpassed:

(= 14+14 )


Who said you must mate on c7? 18 half moves possible!
And surely may be varied.
 
   
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(10) Posted by Joost de Heer [Monday, Jan 4, 2021 22:25]

h#4 solution is 1. Kf7 e8=R 2. Kg6 OOOO (Ke3/Re2) 3. Kh5 Kf4 4. Kh4 Rh2#
 
 
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(11) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Tuesday, Jan 5, 2021 03:42]

Thanks for this, Hauke, here are some results:

(= 14+12 )
PG in 9.0, non-unique

(= 13+14 )
PG in 10.0, non-standard material

(= 14+13 )
PG in 11.0, prenix
The C.Staugaard dedication is seamlessly transferred from the prior record.

At one point I submitted an illegal position to Natch (BTM checking White) but it returned a unique solution! Just something to watch for
 
   
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(12) Posted by Michel Caillaud [Wednesday, Jan 6, 2021 00:50]

The previous 9.0 non-unique can be turned in a 10.0 unique
AB+JM+HR+MC?
(= 14+13 )
PG in 10.0, prenix
 
   
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(13) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Wednesday, Jan 6, 2021 06:03]

Wonderful PGs, everyone!

Michael, I agree on AB+JM+HR+MC if Hauke also agrees. :)
 
   
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(14) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Wednesday, Jan 6, 2021 07:08]

Sublime Michel. C+ Natch + thinking (& still dedicated to C.Staugaard, I hope).
The non-standard mate record then comes down as well:
AB+JM+HR+MC
(= 14+14 )
PG in 9.5, non-standard material
C+ Jacobi + thinking
 
   
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(15) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Wednesday, Jan 6, 2021 10:32]

Can somebody post a sample Jacobi input here, so I don't have
to RTFM each time? (And BTW, I'm already flabbergasted by the fact
that the K can run to a near opposite corner without any field
or move swaps...As I said, SPG is not my thing :-)
 
   
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(16) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Wednesday, Jan 6, 2021 10:59]

@Hauke I always google for “Jacobi chess doc”. That way i can start on the documentation page and select an appropriate template to load in the engine page. If I start in the engine home page itself then I always discover that I still can’t remember the syntax and it’s several punishing clicks from there to get to the doc page. I was having a chat with someone else maybe James Quah who’s says he does the same thing. I tried explaining to Francois Labelle but bless him he didn’t get my point.
The default PG I usually click on translates to:
stipulation dia9.5 forsyth rsbq1bsr/pppk1ppp/2B5/4p3/8/3PSSr1/PPP2PPP/R1BQ1RK1
condition Circe RexInclusive
If I’m using N but not S then I stick Englishn at the beginning. There is also Teddy described in another thread but I haven’t tried that yet. Just getting used to Olive
 
   
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(17) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: James Malcom) [Thursday, Jan 7, 2021 14:52]

Something on the side: Fastest PG with two castlings?

PG 8.5
(= 14+15 )


The first 8.0 moves are C+ by Jacobi; nothing orthodox in 8.5.
 
   
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(18) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Thursday, Jan 7, 2021 17:33]

<troll mode>1. e4 e5 2. Bc4 Bc5 3. Ne2 Ne7 4. O-O O-O</troll mode>
 
   
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(19) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Thursday, Jan 7, 2021 21:16]

Funny idea, James. Well assuming that one of the two castlings must be P-K, how about this:

(= 14+15 )
PG in 8.0
Natch says: 1 sol for the first 7.5, assuming P-K as the 8th Bl move; 0 in 8.0; therefore P-K happened (and it can only have been Bl).

Each player has 7 moves accounted for, so Bl K&R couldn't have shifted after P-K, so that was the last move, preceded by the unique sol in 7.5. Therefore HC+.
 
   
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(20) Posted by Nikola Predrag [Friday, Jan 8, 2021 02:46]

What are the details of the task? Producing a clone before the original Rook is captured?
Would this do: 1.e4 Sf6 2.Qf3 Sh5 3.Qf6 exf6 4.e5 Be7 5.exf6 0-0 6.fxe7 Sg3 7.e8R Sxh1?
 
   
(Read Only)pid=20395

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MatPlus.Net Forum X-Files: Anticipations Pam-Krabbe-Rochade, aka Extra-Long, Castling-Anticipated By 65 Years!