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MatPlus.Net Forum General Most uneconomic economic mate
 
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(1) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Sunday, May 2, 2021 17:54]

Most uneconomic economic mate


For a question over at Chess SE: I do remember a bohemian school
problem with a model mate with a maximum of pieces involved.
(This will almost surely imply that each piece guarded exactly
one flight.)
More precise, I remember the existence of this problem,
but nothing about the position, author or only stipulation.
Anyone have a bell ringing?
 
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(2) Posted by Frank Richter [Sunday, May 2, 2021 20:12]

A very ugly model mate with four pins:
https://www.yacpdb.org/#16701
This was a thematic tourney on this topic.
 
 
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(3) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Sunday, May 2, 2021 20:32]

I remember seeing a helpmate with 17 pieces recently that showed an ideal mate or whatever it is called. I think it was a helpmate in 1.5 moves.

It must have been in the Schwalbe in 2020. If I remember to do it, I will look for it later.

People didn't understand the theme (maximum number of pieces for that mate) and so suggested "improvements" with fewer pieces.
 
   
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(4) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Sunday, May 2, 2021 22:50]

@Frank: No pins were involved (and the SE asker explicitely
specified 8 different guards for each flight). Also, 1991
isn't exactly Bohemian age :-) Still, nice find.
 
   
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(5) Posted by Joose Norri [Monday, May 3, 2021 10:17]

Pachman's problem is the often quoted one: https://www.yacpdb.org/#56041
 
   
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(6) Posted by Valery Liskovets [Thursday, May 6, 2021 18:34]

@Siegfried: Probably you meant my problem

VL, feenschach, 2018, H.231, #11864
(= 10+8 )
h#2
1.Bc2 Rd8 2.Kd3 Sxe5#!
The final position represents what I call a loosely ideal mate.
17 is a theoretical maximum (with no promoted pieces).

Here is the related (presumable) record for a further generalization of the ideal mate:
VL, #11857 (ibid.)
(= 10+8 )
h#1.5
1...Rd7 2.Kd3 Se5#! - 18 pieces (incl. bSb2).

As to direct mate problems, the record seems to be 16 pieces; see the 2-mover
https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=probid%3D%27P1367299%27
by Valery Shanshin.
 
   
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(7) Posted by Frank Richter [Friday, May 7, 2021 10:00]

Well, Hauke searched for 8 different guards for each flight.

Another interesting question would be the most economic economic mate. Means, every piece is involved with it's maximum power (Pawn guards 2 fields, Bishop 3 etc.) I'm not sure, whether such mating pictures even exist (without black blocks). Any suggestions?
 
   
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(8) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, May 7, 2021 10:44]

@Frank: A quick search did not come up with one,
I think it's impossible. First the numbers:

Q 6 R 4 B 3 S 2 P 2 K 3.

Assume the K *must* be involved. 6 fields left. B would have to be
checking, doesn't work, R can't join either, S or B can't protect
3 white and black fields. Impossible.
Assume it doesn't.
Assume the Q is involved. 3 fields left in any case. Impossible,
you can't place a B.
Assume the R is involved. 5 fields left in any case. You need a
B if nonchecking R. Works *almost*, but the S has to go where
the R or B stands. If checking R, also impossible.
Thus 9 fields are involved, and a B checks (otherwise parity).
But a S or P can't protect the two B-colored fields.
 
 
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(9) Posted by Viktoras Paliulionis [Friday, May 7, 2021 16:09]

The most uneconomic ideal mate with 8 pawns: https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/P1002828
 
 
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(10) Posted by Frank Richter [Tuesday, May 25, 2021 10:20]

Hauke, possibly you remembered this #2 from "Krumme Hunde":
https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/P1103758
(I'll post diagram later, currently diagram creation seems to be not available)
 
   
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(11) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Tuesday, May 25, 2021 23:44]

And don't forget to translate the poem...
 
   
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(12) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Wednesday, May 26, 2021 00:16]

For Olaf:

Maier plays in his best form
against Huber like a storm.
"Mate in two", exclaimed in glee
Huber slumps down to his knee.
Bishop e6, king e4
Bishop f5, tell there's not more.
But Huber now speaks at the end:
"This mate is not so innocent.
Eight pieces, that is no abhorrent art.
Each single one plays an important part.
Take one away, and you will know
my king now has a space to go.
Each piece protects a single square,
eight times it works, I counted there."
So Maier looks and is in glee.
Huber is right, how can this be?
And the morals of this story yet?
If you give checkmate, don't forget:
Count pieces, look at every square.
Or your king might be stolen there.

(Original translation by me of the poem by Erich Bartel)
 
   
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(13) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Wednesday, May 26, 2021 11:05]

That’s a great translation with fine rhyming, it would be classed as "doggerel"
 
   
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(14) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Wednesday, May 26, 2021 22:19]

Last night I was surprized about this great translation.
But my English is too bad to be able to assess that.
So I'm glad to hear it from a native speaker.
Well done, Siegfried!
(By the way my father's name)
 
   
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(15) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Thursday, May 27, 2021 10:41]

Applause from a non-native speaker is also OK. :-)
+1 from me as well.
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Most uneconomic economic mate