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| (1) Posted by Neal Turner [Friday, May 15, 2020 10:59]; edited by Neal Turner [20-05-15] |
11th WCCT
Great work by everybody - especially Georgy & Harry - to get this off the ground!
https://www.wfcc.ch/wp-content/uploads/WCCT-11-announcement.pdf
(Although I do wonder what the Retro community thinks about their genre being hijacked by the proofgamers)
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| (2) Posted by Martin Minski [Friday, May 15, 2020 16:01] |
Study section:
D4 is a study by Didukh & Tkachenko (not by Diot & Drumare), 1st prize Olimpiya Dunyasi 2012.
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| (3) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Friday, May 15, 2020 17:17] |
QUOTE
Study section:
D4 is a study by Didukh & Tkachenko (not by Diot & Drumare), 1st prize Olimpiya Dunyasi 2012.
Thank you, Martin. We shall correct this unfortunate mistake in the first clarification circular letter. The source of the study was given to me as shown in the announcement.
Please clarify if the composer is Sergey Nikolaevich TKACHENKO or Sergy Ivanovich TKACHENKO (I do not have van der Heijden's database and this study is not in WinChloe).
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| (4) Posted by Martin Minski [Friday, May 15, 2020 18:06] |
Dear Harry,
this ist a study by Sergy Ivanovich TKACHENKO (& Sergiy Didukh).
See:
http://arves.org/arves/images/PDF-Awards/Olimpiya-Dunyasi-2012.pdf
Best wishes,
Martin
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| (5) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Friday, May 15, 2020 20:20] |
Dear Harry,
Thanks for all your work.
What are residency requirements for membership of a team please?
All the best
Andrew
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| (6) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Saturday, May 16, 2020 00:00] |
We are a relatively small community, so we never established any concrete requirements. Nothing has changed since this old thread http://matplus.net/start.php?px=1589578801&app=forum&act=posts&fid=gen&tid=1243&pid=10460&mark=yes&#n10460, where Steven had asked a similar question.
As far as I know, in the previous WCCT a composer participated for a country in which neither was he born nor was he living. The composer asked the Presidium for permission, we contacted his "mother" country, there were no objections from their side, so we had no reason to deny. In the WCSC/ECSC, which are more competitive by default, eligibility is checked based on the FIDE OTB rules. Frankly, I am not quite sure what these rules are about.
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| (7) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Sunday, May 17, 2020 00:01]; edited by seetharaman kalyan [20-05-18] |
@Andrew, Welcome to Indian team if Singapore is not participating
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| (8) Posted by Valery Gurov [Sunday, May 17, 2020 11:14] |
Dear Harry,
You lost my name again :-)
https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=A+%3D+%27%D0%93%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%27+AND+STIP+%3D+%27s%233%27
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| (9) Posted by Mario Parrinello [Sunday, May 17, 2020 19:28] |
Just for the sake of completeness, which judging country is the reserve for the Retros section?
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| (10) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Sunday, May 17, 2020 21:25] |
Neil Turner wrote: QUOTE
Although I do wonder what the Retro community thinks about their genre being hijacked by the proofgamers
This is an interesting point. Six years ago, when it was decided to add a retro section to the WCCT, Andrey Frolkin wrote to me with some ideas for the theme of the first tourney. We both wanted to allow all sub-genres of retros be represented, even if some themes are more (or less) suitable for proof games. None of the themes Andrey proposed at the time was accepted for the previous WCCT, but one of his suggestions turned out to be the theme of the current WCCT. It seems the WCCT committee favors themes well formulated and limited in scope, like for example, the theme of the fairy section that is limited to direct mates in 3 moves.
The experiment of including a retro section in the 10th WCCT was quite successful. The section attracted more entries than each of the #3, #n and studies sections. Having solving programs to test the entries was also very helpful. It was clear to me that having PGs instead of other forms of retros was the main reason for the success of the tourney. Yet, I would have preferred a broader representation of all sub-genres. Michel Caillaud has been doing it for decades with his Champagne tourneys having two sections; one for PGs and one for other retros. In this case, everything would have to be in one section and this is not easy for the judges. Maybe we can try it in a future WCCT.
By the way, it is not clearly stated, but my guess is that fairy proof games are not allowed for the 11th WCCT. Or problems of the A->B type. We will probably find out sooner or later.
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| (11) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Sunday, May 17, 2020 22:32] |
Retros have many sub-genres. I can name five from the top of my head:
Resolve position
Defense (or coop) retractor
Anticirce retractor [I consider this a separate genre from standard retractor]
Illegal cluster
Proof game
So possibly in the future different sub-genres could be served if ideas are there for themes? Maybe something to bring up at the WCCC this year (although it likely will be held online only).
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| (12) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Sunday, May 17, 2020 23:24] |
@ Valery: Indeed, the example was provided with both the names of Aleksandr and yours. In my last review of the announcement, I cross-checked the sources with WinChloe. The problem is registered there with AF's name only. Then I checked the WCCT booklet itself, which is in agreement. Georgy Evseev mentioned this as a last-minute remark, but he acknowledged he couldn't provide "any proof". I was not aware of AF's statement in SK. We will correct also this mistake.
@ Mario: We couldn't find reserves for moremovers, studies and retros this time. If needed, we shall seek again.
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| (13) Posted by Thomas Brand [Monday, May 18, 2020 14:29] |
Siegfried, you might add further sub-genres if you want: help retractors, rebus, fairy proof games, ...
I think you can do the very same with e.g. #3: earlier FIDE Albums divided officially between Bohemian, Logical and Other #3 sections, today you might add Cylone type for example.
But in general for each section it seems me to be with music: There are just TWO sub-sections: good problems/music and not so good ones ... ;-)
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| (14) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Monday, May 18, 2020 20:04] |
Harry wrote:
QUOTE
We are a relatively small community, so we never established any concrete requirements. Nothing has changed since this old thread http://matplus.net/start.php?px=1589578801&app=forum&act=posts&fid=gen&tid=1243&pid=10460&mark=yes&#n10460, where Steven had asked a similar question.
As far as I know, in the previous WCCT a composer participated for a country in which neither was he born nor was he living. The composer asked the Presidium for permission, we contacted his "mother" country, there were no objections from their side, so we had no reason to deny. In the WCSC/ECSC, which are more competitive by default, eligibility is checked based on the FIDE OTB rules. Frankly, I am not quite sure what these rules are about.
Seetharaman wrote:
QUOTE
@Andrew, Welcome to Indian team if Singapore is not participating
Thanks for your very friendly responses.
I also got an email from someone a bit timid, so I will not post their name. He suggested a parallel with a previous situation where one country tried to infiltrate what was then the Commission by sending extra delegates who claimed to represent countries that had not themselves sent a delegate. The Statutes declare that a representative must be either a citizen of or permanently resident in the country in question.
The right ruling seems to have been made in that situation, but I am unconvinced about the validity of the parallel. I went back to previous sets of WCCT rules, and there's never been any info about residency, so it would seem harsh to suddenly clamp down with no prior warning. However, I do sympathize that it's good to avoid people competing for countries on a whim.
I am not sure what Singapore will do. My own preference would be for them to compete, so I can participate. Failing that, one idea would be to have a "Rest of the World" team, like a recent high-level chess tournament did. But I suspect that takes too much organization.
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| (15) Posted by Frank Richter [Monday, May 18, 2020 21:10] |
Yes, or participate beyond the label "FIDE" or "WFCC", like Firouzja in OTB currently ;)
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| (16) Posted by Joose Norri [Tuesday, May 19, 2020 14:30] |
Thomas, different types of threemovers use the same rules, different types of retro have different rules. It also used to be in the rules of the WCCT that a theme should not prescribe (even between the lines) a Bohemian, Logical etc. style; now there's only what paragraph five says.
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| (17) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Tuesday, May 19, 2020 16:08] |
Arguably, retro is to proof game as study is to direct mate
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| (18) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Wednesday, May 20, 2020 01:10] |
The helpmate theme:
While the theme is interesting, I wonder why the length is restricted to 3.5+. In fact the theme can be shown readily in 2.5 moves.
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| (19) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Wednesday, May 20, 2020 10:00] |
@Thomas Brand:
"So, Dr. Baltar, you say you found a dead-sure Cylon detector?"
"Yes! I let them compose #3! If it looks mechanical, it's a Cylon!"
SCNR. Yes, I'm childish at least once per day.
Hauke, most definitely not a Cylon
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| (20) Posted by Jakob Leck [Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:36] |
While not knowing the reasons that motivated the organisers, I would say that there are a few good ones for the length restriction for the helpmates:
-Having a more homogeneous group to judge, not a mix of short multisolution h#s and moremovers.
-A possibly higher danger of anticipation in h#2.5 or, say, greater chances for originality in the longer problems. (Which is, of course, to some extent speculation on my part.)
-The difficulty involved in realising white sacrifices in longer h#s.
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