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MatPlus.Net Forum General INTERNATIONAL CHESS COMPOSITION UNION
 
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(1) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Friday, Apr 10, 2009 11:42]; edited by Dejan Glisić [09-04-10]

INTERNATIONAL CHESS COMPOSITION UNION


Is this a new beginning?
http://www.saunalahti.fi/~stniekat/pccc/iccu.htm
"In other words, do you intend to continue your membership of the PCCC (now ICCU) in its contemporary state of independence?"
 
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(2) Posted by David Knezevic [Friday, Apr 10, 2009 12:12]

 QUOTE 
Is this a new beginning?

... or a beginning of the end?

This document looks more like a final decision than a proposal. However, only the Commission can make such decision, so I think that the document should not have been published at all before that. I am afraid that it will only contribute to further disagreements and separation.
 
 
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(3) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Friday, Apr 10, 2009 16:32]

Dear Milan,
If this is the end, I think that Kirsan wass the beginning of that end. He already destroyed institution of World Chess Champion. Kasparov was to strong and Kasparov was 'to borring'. Kasparov had strong sponsors. And Kirsan brought us a tennis formula into the world of chess and he brought his instant champions. Was it some progress? Who remember Halifman, and where is Halifman today? World rank: 152, rating 2610. (http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=4100115).
Today, Kirsan brings us some 'structural changes'. Is it the beginning of the end? Does he send us a Trojan Horse?
Kasparov passed away, PCCC passed away, but Kirsan is forewer, he isn't borring at all. The King of Kalmykia!
I "strongly believe in the ability of our organization to overcome any difficulty imposed on us from any direction". Of course, you can support WACC, Kirsan and so on. Maybe you don't have to go to Rio and maybe you can organize some parallel congress, in Turkey for example, and split our world in two parts.
This isn not going to hapenn, I hope!
This ugly fight for power has to stop! Is it going to ruin us?
I can live without FIDE and without PCCC, without WACC and ICCU. I don't need them at all. What about you? Just ask yourself! It is the question for every chess composer.
 
   
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(4) Posted by Valery Gurov [Friday, Apr 10, 2009 17:17]

Dear Dejan,
The first: You personally sometime talked to Ilyumzhinov, Kasparov? Probably, you talked to people who well know them? Why you do such conclusions, what Kasparov very good person, and Ilyumzhinov very bad?
The second. If you solve problems at leisure and do not participate in any tournaments to problems PCCC are really indifferent for you. And it is fine! But Milan participates in tournaments, it the sportsman, therefore at it other sight at events...
 
   
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(5) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Friday, Apr 10, 2009 18:37]

@Dejan,

I noticed that you mentioned congress in Turkey several times in a very negative way. However in my opinion organization of this congress was very good and much better than many other congresses. The accomodation was much better than anywhere else previously. I remember when there was a congress in Belfort (France) there was no even coffie for breakfast. There was no even possibility to order it extra. And it was very expensive there.

The hotel in Turkey was excellent and I do not understand what is your objection to organizing congress there again? I only regret that there was a short notice for congress so attendance was not very high. And I think that majority of problemists had a problem to find airplane tickets. I do not think that anyone objected hotel accomodation or prices. For a hotel of such quality prices were OK.
 
 
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(6) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Friday, Apr 10, 2009 19:15]; edited by Dejan Glisić [09-04-10]

Dear Valery, sorry if I was not precise, and sorry if my English isn't good. There are no ideal persons. Not Kasparov, not Ilyumzhinov. At first, my opinions about Ilymzhinov are not good because of his bad decisions in the past, and especially now because of his 'intervention' into chesscomposition community, because he appointed our 'special project advisor' without consultations to PCCC, our democratic elected comission.
The second, I was talking about hypotetic situation if our organization split. In that case I can still contribute to different magazines arround the world, I can edit bulletin, write for Croatian newspaper and enjoy chesscomposition. But, it will be tragedy for the gratest composers and solvers if our community split. Can you imagine two congresses, two chesscomposing championships and champions, or chess solving championships and champions, in the same time, in the world, fighting each other (as Kasparov's situation before ten years).
I believe, the PCCC and it's presidium are still the only legitimate institutions for chess composition. O.K. PCCC (or ICCU) and it's presidium are going to affiliate to FIDE and 'special project advisor' will be connection of the ICCU and FIDE. I hope that's the end of our troubles, and that's the final.
I hope, that's some sort of 'new beginning' and not the 'beginning of the end'. Now I have to believe that ICCU and advisor will be clever and cooperate in the spirit of chess composition progress. God, save us from any new intervention and from disaccord.
P.S. Dear Miodrag, these are my objections to ECSC in Antalya:
- Turkey was not member of PCCC and no chesscomposers or solvers in Turkey,
- only 40 participants & 10 countries participated ECSC,
- for the first time Junior Chamionship was destroyed,
- limit for patricipation at internet composing tourney,
- the penalty in announcement ('the organizers have the right to accept applications or not by a payment of 150 € late entry penalty fee.')
- 'transparency is needed' I would like to se decisions of PCCC and subcomitees in the future).
Miodrag, when you mention countires of 'eastern Europe', please mention that countries precisely. Somebody may think that we already splited into East and West.
Edit: - ECSC was extended from 3 to 7 days and it became something as 'European Congress'. Two 'congresses' are to much in one year. I believe the main intention of ECSC was cheaper solving event than congress, and opportunity to give a chance to juniors. Maybe two congresses are good opportunity, but concentration is lower - there were only 44 solvers in Antalya!? It looks like regional festival. As example, Belgrade Festival is big happening, maybe bigger than ECSC in Antalya. It seems that ECSC in Subotica will be much more better than Antalya. Of course, Serbia is member of our international community and there are great composers and solvers! I know that organization level in Antalya was good, and hope for the same, even better level in Subotica. Good luck in Subotica!
 
   
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(7) Posted by Alexander Leontyev [Saturday, Apr 11, 2009 01:17]; edited by Alexander Leontyev [09-04-11]

"Our independent organization will soon register, probably in Switzerland, as an international organization for chess composition under the name of: "International Chess Composition Union" (ICCU). This name was carefully selected by us and confirmed as very appropriate by our English friends. Its abbreviation does not collide with that of any other chess organization."
Uri Avner (с)

Поиск в Интернете показал, что есть несколько нешахматных организаций с идентичной аббревиатурой: Международный союз call-центров, Международный Чау-Чау Союз, Институт национального сводного каталога Италии, Международная торговая палата Украины, ООО "Международный карго контроль Украина". Также все члены PCCC теперь станут пациентами отделения интенсивной кардиотерапии (Intensive Cardiac Care Unit).

Internet showed, that there are several non-chess organizations with identical abbreviation: International Call Center Union, International Chow Chow Union, the Italian central cataloguing institution, International Chamber of Commerce of Ukraine, International Cargo Control Ukraine. Also all members of PCCC will become patients of Intensive Cardiac Care Unit.
 
   
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(8) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 07:38]; edited by Jacques Rotenberg [09-04-12]

@ Miodrag

'...I remember when there was a congress in Belfort (France) there was no even coffie for breakfast. There was no even possibility to order it extra. And it was very expensive there.'

I was the organizer of the Belfort Congress, and it was in 1994.
I did hear a lot of things about it, but the lack of coffee, it is the first time !
 
   
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(9) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 07:55]

@Jacques,

The only reason why I remember this is because at the time Mr. Josip Varga from Croation was jocking all the time about this. He did not speak french but I do remember when during the breakfast he was saying in Croatian but with a french accent "Kafe ima jok?" (meaning there is no coffee). This was very funny and that's why I remember this.

Of course that lack of coffe is not a crucial thing but my point was that congress in Turkey was not organized so bad comparing to other congresses.

@Dejan
I agree with you that ECSC should be two day competition. I think it's too much to hae two competitions during the year that are taking more than 4 days. However I stayed in Turkey only over the weekend. There was not a rule that you had to stay all the time.

In my opinion ECSC and WCSC should be organized everyo other year so that there is only one competition during the year. There is no other sport where the World Championship is organized every year.

I think that 99.99% of problemists are not living from chess problems so it does not make any sense to take 10 days of vacation to attend chess problems meetings. It's simply too much. In some countries (USA for example) lot of workers get only 10 days of vacation during the first years of employement and can you imagine taking all vacation just to attend chess problems congresses.
 
   
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(10) Posted by Joost de Heer [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 08:19]

Speed skating has multiple world championships (sprint, allround and individual distances) every year.

For chess solving, ESCS and WSCS are virtually the same. As far as I can remember, the only non-european solving team is from Japan (or did Brazil compete last year?).
 
   
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(11) Posted by Thomas Maeder [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 08:42]

I would like to express my thanks to the PCCC presidium for spending their time to deal so quickly with the important issue of the future organisational form of the international body for chess composition.

With the results published on the PCCC web site, the former PCCC now has a foundation for reconvening later this year and decide on how to move on.
 
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(12) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 09:16]

@ Miodrag

Ha ha

Next time you need coffee, just tell me !

Perhaps I'll be able to do something for you, even if I am not the organizer.
 
   
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(13) Posted by Guy Sobrecases [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 12:17]; edited by Guy Sobrecases [09-04-12]

Since 1994, France has significantly modernized, and we recently discovered coffee. Usually, it is elaborated according to two different processes: "café filtre" , and "expresso" that we learned from our italian friends.

More info when you order:

A “noisette” is an espresso with some added steamed milk
In the “capuccino”, some more milk is added and sometimes cacao (if requested, ...and available)
“French coffee” (coffee+Cognac), is always put at solvers disposal in France. Just tell to the waiter:”Cognac à volonté, c’est ma tournée!”
“Irish coffee” on demand.

Very soon, we hope that we’ll also be able to offer some tea, if our clipper ships sailing from India have fair wind, and survive the wreck and the cannonade.
 
 
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(14) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 15:22]

@Jacques

Just to let you know that I did enjoy my time in Belfort. My post was not about bad organization but more to compare congress in Turkey with other congresses. Comparing all the congresses that I attended accommodation in Turkey was the best. I apologize if I offended you with my post.
 
   
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(15) Posted by Valery Gurov [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 15:28]

I hope, what anybody did not have problems with quantity of vodka in Moscow in 2003? :-)))))
 
   
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(16) Posted by Steven Dowd [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 17:01]

Going to a Congress or "Treffen" somewhere, sometime is one of those experiences in my "to do before I die" list; one that unfortunately I probably won't make. And I was really wanting that Belgian Beer Ignaas V. promised me.....
 
   
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(17) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Sunday, Apr 12, 2009 21:09]

Miodrag, Jacques, Guy :))
Maybe Miodrag and Josip Varga missed something about coffee in France. In Croatia and Serbia people drink two types of coffee: 'Turkish' ('domestic') and 'espresso' ('modern' coffee from machines). In Halkidiki 2004 I was drinking 'espresso' whole two days and I was sick because I didn't find a 'Turkish' coffee in any coffee bar or restaurant. The third day, I ordered my coffee, and saw a lady at the next table drinking a real and beautiful 'Turkish' coffee. And I asked a waiter: Sorry, you don't have a 'Turkish coffee', but the lady at the next table is drinkig it. How is it possible?
And the waiter answer me that the coffee is 'Greek'! :))
Of course, it wasn't Harry's fault. Harry was excellent organizer and he helped us a lot! Thanks again Harry!
 
   
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(18) Posted by Roberto Stelling [Tuesday, Apr 14, 2009 23:23]

Coffee won't be a problem during the congress in Brazil but I must warn Dejan that Turkish coffee is not an option here. ;)
I'm positive that we will be able to find a special surplus of the Brazilian >360,000 ton annual coffee production for the congress participants.
 
   
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(19) Posted by Dejan Glisić [Wednesday, Apr 15, 2009 08:39]; edited by Dejan Glisić [09-04-15]

O.K. Roberto, If I came to Rio I shall bring a recipe for Turkish, Greek, and our domestic types of coffee - 'kava', 'kahva' ... :)) Brazil will get a chance to learn about coffee. :))
Edit: coffee and music! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qteWkVmBGDg&feature=related
 
 
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(20) Posted by Mustafa Olgun EKŞİ [Thursday, Apr 23, 2009 20:15]

I think your objection for Turkiye is not real and true (is there any other reason you didn't tell) sorry but Turkiye wants to grove on chess and our local federation president doing many things for it. Please think free. Otherwise anybody can misunderstand this. Yes we have no composers and solvers yet but when PCCC and any other composers comes more often to Turkey this can be a change. People start to find and like this side of chess. Think free... In Turkiye nobody understand the importance of this yet. Do you know why? But someone has to start this, somebody has to try this... How?? If you (you are good on this job and other friends) come to Turkiye, people can wanted to know this issue. And that's very important. Isn't it? Prices are low (you know its quality) and you can find many things to do and visit at your free times. Im working on two and three moves since 2 months but its not easy when we haven't got any books written in our native language. I love chess problems and I'm trying to learn it. We have a big percentage of young chess players. Give them a chance because you have more of it.
 
   
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MatPlus.Net Forum General INTERNATIONAL CHESS COMPOSITION UNION