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MatPlus.Net  Forum General Maximummer |
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| | | (1) Posted by Joost de Heer [Sunday, May 20, 2012 08:59] | Maximummer
Since this came up in the Take & make thread:
What is the correct definition of 'Maximummer'?
Tries and why they won't work with other fairy conditions:
- Distance between start- and endsquare: Take&makemove 'Ra3xRh3-a3' would have length zero. Anticirce move Ra1xPa7[Ra1] would have length zero.
- Distance between start- and endsquare before rebirth effects: White rose on a1, white rook on b1: Is ROa1-g1 the same length as Rb1-h1?
- Length of the path the piece travelled before it arrived on its endsquare, but before rebirth effects: Take the rose again. ROe1-c2 can be done clockwise (ROe1-c2) or anticlockwise (ROe1-g2-h4-g6-e7-c6-b4-c2). Which length should be used in a maximummer?
So I came up with a sort of 'minimax' definition:
- Of all possible moves (before rebirth effects), find the minimal pathlength for these moves. In a maximummer, the longest of these minimal paths should be chosen. In a minimummer, the shortest of these minimal paths should be chosen.
Not a very beautiful definition of something seemingly so simple.
And now some questions about path lengths:
What is the length of a Mao move? Is it sqrt(5) or sqrt(2)+1?
What is the length of a Trojan horse move CATa1-e2? Is is sqrt(5)+2 or sqrt(17)?
In Augsburger chess, are lengths cumulative? I.e. if 3 pieces move from a1 to b1, is the length 1 or 3?
And there are probably hundreds of examples where move length can be a bit ambiguous.
| | | (2) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Tuesday, May 22, 2012 21:13] |
Personally, I have always understood maximummer/minimummer as
measuring the distance between the start and end of move, not the
distance travelled. Rebirth is excluded unless stated otherwise and
that applies also to anticirce. Popeye seems to understood the matter
in the same way. Zero-length moves are no issue, why they would?
Anticirce captures include rebirth.
Take&Make captures do not include rebirth.
Example.
Stipulation h#1
Condition blackmin Take
Pieces
White Rf7 Kh6 Bc4
Black Kh8 Bf1
It gives 1.Bf1*c4-f1 Rf7-f8 # as solution with zero move by bB.
Answers to your first questions are thus clear to me (sqrt5 and
sqrt17), while Augsburg chess is less clear. But again no ambiguity
for me as there is only one starting and final square and the
travelling mass is one combined piece.
In general, I am a friend of non-exhaustive definitions for fairy
chess. It is impossible to define all interactions of all conceivable
fairy elements. The special cases should be stated in any case when
needed because nobody would remember everything.
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