|
| Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2 |
| (1) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Sunday, Sep 10, 2023 11:04] |
White Line Combinations in Selfmate
I'm not a selfmate specialist. So I don't know which White Line Combinations already have been done in the s#2.
Consider the following sentences. Methinks ALL permutations (choose a random item in each column!)
make sense in s#2 (but NOT #2, or even h#2), since ALL effects can turn out as positive or negative.
"LINE" always refers to a white guard line.
............1..........2.........3.............4.........5.........6
A) BECAUSE. W LINEOPEN. MUST W LINEOPEN.
B) ALTHOUGH B LINECLOSE MAY. B LINECLOSE
C) ........................................MAY NOT
For example, Thema B of White Line Combinations reads A1B2A3B45A6B.
Lessee: 96 possible permutations, does still fit in an article (and surely in an Internet thread). :-)
So, if you know any of this (DANGER: STIP='s#2' and K='linienkombination' in the SchwalbePDB mostly
will give BLACK Line Combinations, which are much more fun in s#2 than #2!) and want to help poor
Hauke to outsource his workload a bit, post it here.
|
|
| (2) Posted by Neal Turner [Monday, Sep 11, 2023 21:14] |
No replies yet, which I can understand as s#2 is very much a minority specialty.
However there's also the possibility that people (me!) don't have a clue what you're talking about.
If you could give us an example problem, or even a schema, showing how your seemingly novel notation applies to actual moves, then maybe we could move forward with what seems to be an interesting topic.
|
|
| (3) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Monday, Sep 11, 2023 22:54] |
To me also Hauk'd post seemed too cryptic. Perhaps my English not so good
|
|
| (4) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Tuesday, Sep 12, 2023 00:20] |
Hauke's posts are cryptic in any language.
|
|
| (5) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Tuesday, Sep 12, 2023 13:23] |
I improved the formatting of the original post a bit, does that help? :-)
(Finding good examples is not that easy, it seems that SchwalbePDB knows only
"Line Combination"...which is mostly black in s#)
I try with the first I found:
P1108968 E. Halladay
 (= 12+8 )
White Java, i.e.
Because Black closes a line (Sd4/Se7), White may not close a line (Sc3/Sf6 to the same square;
instead he closes another - dual avoidance)
So this is A1B2B3C4A5B6. (And not specific to s#, I would be more interested
in stuff only possible in s#)
|
|
| (6) Posted by Andrew Buchanan [Tuesday, Sep 12, 2023 14:47] |
Thanks for some clarification. In your example you say “…White may not…” but isn’t it “must not”? I suggest in column 4 you have your 3 values “Must”, “Must not” & “May (but is not obliged to)”.
I know “may not” can imply certainty, but I think my suggested renaming is clearer if I’ve understood correctly
|
|
| (7) Posted by udo [Tuesday, Sep 12, 2023 18:37] |
TT in harmonie, 2000
http://www.problemschach.de/harmonie/thematur/tt11.pdf
|
|
| (8) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Tuesday, Sep 12, 2023 19:50] |
@Andrew: The illogicality of languages (especially those which are
not my mother tongue ;-) always annoys me to no end.
Must not...mustn't...may not...In German it would be obvious:
A must B
A must not B = It is not true that (A must B)
A may B
A may not B = It is not true that (A may B) = A must (not B)
(So if Gandalf says "You shall not pass", does he mean
"You may not pass" or "You must not pass"? :-)
|
|
| (9) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Tuesday, Sep 12, 2023 19:52] |
@Udo: THX! This will be an invaluable reference!
I'm already dead curious whether #2-impossible stuff shows up.
|
|
| (10) Posted by Neal Turner [Sunday, Sep 17, 2023 14:40] |
This kind of thing would be useful if we were talking about a well-worn genre where 'everything's been done' and you were searching for an overlooked combination to explore, secure in the knowledge that you were in original territory.
But as you yourself say, this is certainly not the case here, so don't worry about what's been done, because nothing's been done!
However it's good that you're putting the spotlight on the sorely neglected s#2 - the cinderella genre, always in the shadow of the sexy s#3.
Petkov demonstrated the fantastic possibilities of the strategic s#4, Gamnitzer opened up new ground with the introduction of logical elements, while the computers have allowed composers to go longer and longer with bohemian examples.
One might say it's been a Golden Age for the longer selfmate, meanwhile the poor old s#2 has been sitting on the shelf, gathering dust.
Well, not quite - there's always been a small contingent of enthusiasts intent on keeping the embers burning, for instance from Poland and Germany.
And there's been an effort to explore new ideas (https://www.dieschwalbe.de/download/drohkorrektur.pdf), but it's still a rare bird - very often there's no two-movers to be found in the originals columns.
However, on the plus side this situation gives an opportunity for newcomers to jump in and try their hand without worrying so much about anticipations.
I went to yacpdb and got the following numbers:
-------------#2 / s#2
Theme A 85 / 0
Theme B 76 / 0
Dual avoidance 905 / 109
Black correction 19841 / 74
White correction 1889 / 33
Dombrovskis 3161 / 32
Novotny 2978 / 11
The field is wide open!!
And as Hauke says in the original post, it's more fun in s#2!
|
|
| (11) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Sep 18, 2023 09:00] |
Neal, honestly, no Theme A or B in the s#2? I'm no s# man, but I could
hack that together in ten minutes! (The only reason I don't is that
it would turn out lame-o.) I even daresay it *has* been done, maybe even
unconsciously or not recognized as such, but not been tagged.
|
|
| (12) Posted by Frank Richter [Monday, Sep 18, 2023 10:08] |
Several years ago I tried to give an overview on this topic in harmonie 61, 03/2000: "Linienkombinationen im Selbstmattzweizüger". There are several examples for Thema A and other line combinations, both very simple and selfmate-specific (see P1180109). Then followed the above mentioned theme tourney.
Later especially Daniel Papack created very interesting and specific examples with line combinations in s#2. And in the Schwalbe, issue 196, 08/2002, we published another article about "recolored" possibilities of line combinations in s#2. Unfortunately, there were practically no reactions to this, possibly the matter was too complicated ...
|
|
| (13) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Sep 18, 2023 20:03] |
@Frank: Can you UL the article somewhere? I'd like to check it against
my own classification system. (EDIT: And Schwalbe 196 also is JUST
missing in their archive. But I can read it on dead wood :-)
|
|
| (14) Posted by Joost de Heer [Tuesday, Sep 19, 2023 11:26] |
The article in Die Schwalbe 196 is available in the Inhalt section: https://dieschwalbe.de/schwalbe196.htm
|
|
| (15) Posted by udo [Tuesday, Sep 19, 2023 19:24] |
@Hauke (The themes are often not mentioned in the databases)
some own examples
Thema A https://www.yacpdb.org/#502516
Thema F (with tries) https://www.yacpdb.org/#515668
Java https://www.yacpdb.org/#537315
Anti-Mari https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=PROBID+%3D+%27P1344893%27
Thema B https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/search.jsp?expression=PROBID+%3D+%27P1408949%27
|
|
| (16) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Tuesday, Sep 19, 2023 20:15] |
@Joost: too late, already went to my drawer :-)
@Udo: THX for the examples!
@everyone: now I can formulate more clearly so that even Olaf will understand it :P
The examples so far were either
a) the same themes as in #2, either s# specific or not (the latter being an achievement
in itself, but for my "groundwork" not that relevant)
b) the same themes "recolored" so that they now analogously apply to the *white* king.
Also interesting, also not my area.
Consider this: All elementary white line combinations in #2 are either
a) negative for White, as in: White or Black close a line, White can't close on mate (prototype: A,F,G)
This can only be shown in a try (or White changing the attempted mate)
b) positive for White, as in: Black opens a line, White may close on mate (prototype: B)
In a variant.
c) neutral for White, as in: White opens a line, White may close on mate (prototype: compensating line opening)
In a variant. (If Black also opened, it would be an Anti Lewman B)
d) forcing for White, as in: White or Black closes a line, White must open on mate (prototype: C,D)
Mainly in dual avoidance. The White/White combination thereof seems to lack a name, although it has
been shown a million times.
Now already the h#2 can show a combination impossible in #2 (Rainer Paslack found it before me),
can you find it too? :-)
My job is now to permute through all combinations of "White","Black","open","close","must","may not","may"
that can make logical sense. For example, two closings make no sense at all in #2.
|
|
| (17) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Wednesday, Sep 20, 2023 12:50] |
The theme of 3-wcct was
White closes a white line to prepare for opening it!
|
|
| (18) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Wednesday, Sep 20, 2023 21:05] |
@seetharaman: Technically, this wouldn't count as
white line *combination* (only one line!) at all.
(That a white 1-line combination "in spirit" is
possible - see my P1344971, pericritic far G,
only that WLK pericritic far G can't exist by
definition :-) - is a different can of worms...)
|
|
| (19) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Wednesday, Sep 20, 2023 21:27] |
You are right Hauke. This is only white self interference.
|
|
| (20) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Sep 22, 2023 09:29] |
Finally, I can give a proper example. The position shows that I never
compose s#, it's barely legal.
 (= 13+14 )
Thema H, only that it isn't but rather the opposite of Thema H.
White must get rid of all guards of d5 and plays
1.Rxa6 (direct unguard, ZZ) and now Black must (if he doesn't
choose 1...f5 2.Bd5+ or 1...d5 2.f5+) play 1...Sb7/c6 (second
unguard) 2.f5+ (third) Kd5#.
Such logic is also possible in h#2 but not in 2# (how can
a White unguard help White?).
|
|
Read more... |
Page: [Previous] [Next] 1 2
MatPlus.Net  Forum General White Line Combinations in Selfmate |
ISC 2024
