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(21) Posted by Arno Tungler [Monday, Jan 27, 2020 15:03]; edited by Arno Tungler [200128] 
UNFORTUNATELY I EDITED THE ENTERED POSITION INSTEAD OF DOING A REPLY. PLEASE IGNORE THIS MESSAGE...
Deleted by mistake... 

(22) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Monday, Jan 27, 2020 19:50] 
This is much shorter:
1.Kh3h4 Le4d5 2.Kh4h5 Ld5e4 3.Lf2g1 Le4d5 4.Le1f2 Ld5e4 5.Ld2e1 Le4d5 6.Lc1d2 Ld5e4 7.Lb2c1 Le4d5 8.La3b2 Ld5e4
9.Lb4a3 Le4d5 10.La5b4 Ld5e4 11.Lg5h4 Le4d5 12.Lb6a5 Ld5e4 13.Lh6g5 Le4d5 14.Kh5h6 Ld5e4 15.Kh6h7 Le4d5 16.Kh7g8 Ld5e4
17.La7b6 Le4d5 18.Lg7h6 Ld5e4 19.Lb8a7 Le4d5 20.Lf8g7 Ld5e4 21.Kg8f8 Le4d5 22.Kf8e8 Ld5e4 23.Ke8d8 Le4d5 24.Kd8c8 Ld5e4
25.Kc8b8 Le4d5 26.Kb8a8 Ld5e4 27.La7b8 Le4d5 28.Ka8a7 Ld5e4 29.Ka7a6 Le4d5 30.Lb6a7 Ld5e4 31.La5b6 Le4d5 32.Ka6a5 Ld5e4
33.Ka5a4 Le4d5 34.Lb4a5 Ld5e4 35.La3b4 Le4d5 36.Ka4a3 Ld5e4 37.Ka3a2 Le4d5 38.Ka2b1 Ld5e4 39.Lb2a3 Le4d5 40.Lc1b2 Ld5e4
41.Kb1c1 Le4d5 42.Kc1d1 Ld5e4 43.Ld2c1 Le4d5 44.Le1d2 Ld5e4 45.Kd1e1 Le4d5 46.Ke1xf1 Ld3e4 47.Kf1xe2 Le4d3 48.Ke2e1 Ld5e4
49.Ke1d1 Ld3f1 50.Lg1h2 Le4d3 51.Lf2e1 Lf1e2# 

(23) Posted by James Malcom [Monday, Jan 27, 2020 21:01]; edited by James Malcom [200127] 
I appreciate the computer testing Olaf, I send my gratitude.
Just to bring it all together as for everyone's convenience:
h#97, C+ For Length (Duals To Be Ignored)
After Otto Blathy And Karl Fabel
(= 15+29 )
One Of Many Solutions (I have copy pasted yours]): 1.Kg6h7 Lg4h3 2.Kh7g8 Lh3g4 3.Lf2g1 Lg4h3 4.Lg7h8 Lh3g4 5.Lf8g7 Lg4h3 6.Kg8f8 Lh3g4 7.Kf8e8 Lg4h3 8.Ke8d8 Lh3g4 9.Kd8c8 Kh1xg1 10.Le1f2 Kg1h1 11.Ld2e1 Lg4h3 12.Lc1d2 Lh3g4 13.Lb2c1 Lg4h3 14.Lf2g1 Lh3g4 15.La3b2 Lg4h3 16.Lb4a3 Lh3g4 17.La5b4 Lg4h3 18.Lb6a5 Lh3g4 19.La7b6 Lg4h3 20.Lb8a7 Lh3g4 21.Kc8b8 Lg4h3 22.Kb8a8 Lh3g4 23.La7b8 Lg4h3 24.Ka8a7 Lh3g4 25.Ka7a6 Lg4h3 26.Lb6a7 Lh3g4 27.La5b6 Lg4h3 28.Ka6a5 Lh3g4 29.Ka5a4 Lg4h3 30.Lb4a5 Lh3g4 31.La3b4 Lg4h3 32.Ka4a3 Lh3g4 33.Ka3a2 Lg4h3 34.Ka2b1 Kh1xg1 35.Le1f2 Kg1h1 36.Ld2e1 Lh3g4 37.Lc1d2 Lg4h3 38.Kb1c1 Lh3g4 39.Kc1d1 Lg4h3 40.Lf2g1 Kh1xg1 41.Le1f2 Kg1h1 42.Kd1e1 Lh3g4 43.Ke1xf1 Lg4h3 44.Kf1e1 Lh3g4 45.Ke1d1 Lg4h3 46.Kd1c1 Lh3g4 47.Kc1b1 Lg4h3 48.Kb1a2 Lh3g4 49.Lf2g1 Kh1xg1 50.Ka2a3 Kg1f1 51.Ld2e1 Kf1xe1 52.Ka3a4 Ke1d1 53.Lb2c1 Kd1xc1 54.Lb4a3 Kc1d1 55.La3c1 Lg4h3 56.La5b4 Lh3g4 57.Ka4a5 Lg4h3 58.Ka5a6 Lh3g4 59.Lb6a5 Lg4h3 60.La7b6 Lh3g4 61.Ka6a7 Lg4h3 62.Ka7a8 Kd1xc1 63.Lb4a3 Kc1b1 64.Lb8a7 Kb1a2 65.Ka8b8 Ka2xa3 66.La5b4 Ka3a4 67.Kb8c8 Ka4b5 68.Kc8d8 Kb5a6 69.Kd8e8 Ka6b7 70.La7b8 Kb7xb8 71.Ke8f8 Kb8c8 72.Kf8g8 Kc8d7 73.Kg8h7 Kd7e8 74.Lg7f8 Ke8xf8 75.Lh8g7 Kf8f7 76.Kh7h8 Kf7g6 77.Kh8g8 Lh3g4 78.Kg8f8 Kg6h7 79.Kf8e8 Kh7g6 80.Ke8d8 Kg6h7 81.Kd8c8 Kh7g6 82.Kc8b8 Kg6h7 83.Kb8a7 Kh7g6 84.Ka7a6 Kg6f7 85.Ka6a5 Kf7e8 86.Ka5a4 Ke8d7 87.Ka4a3 Kd7c8 88.Ka3b2 Kc8b7 89.Kb2c1 Kb7a6 90.Kc1d2 Ka6b5 91.Kd2e1 Kb5a4 92.Ke1f2 Ka4b3 93.Kf2xg2 Kb3a2 94.Kg2f1 Ka2b1 95.Bg3g2 Kb1c1 96.g2g1L Kc1d1 97.Lh4f2 Lg4h3#
To ArnoAs cooked as your problem is, as shown by Olaf, it is a very nice extension try. It will very hard to extend my #97. It took my forever myself to even think of giving White an extra bishop. My setup just barely allows for the kings to swap around, which was and is another difficult factor in making a record length illegal problem. 

(24) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Monday, Jan 27, 2020 22:05] 
The solution can be seen there via autoplay:
https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/P1372242 

(25) Posted by James Malcom [Monday, Jan 27, 2020 22:41]; edited by James Malcom [200127] 
Many thanks. What makes my problem worthy of being on the database, in your opinion, Olaf? 

(26) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Monday, Jan 27, 2020 23:50] 
Nothing, because every published problem should be added to the PDB.
I add problems I like, especially I like records. There is no matter of taste to find the best and it is amazing to see what can be done at the chessboard.
The PDB collects all problems despite of quality or soundness. At the moment there are 431102 problems, 28187 of them cooked. 

(27) Posted by James Malcom [Tuesday, Jan 28, 2020 03:11]; edited by James Malcom [200128] 
I understand that. Also, I've added my first problem into the Schwalbe PBD! It's an old, but somewhat unknown, classic that should already have been in the database: https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/P1372243. I have taught myself German notation, so I am able to go through PBD problems like breeze. Typing it out is still a bit cumbersome for me, but I will get there eventually. 

(28) Posted by Arno Tungler [Tuesday, Jan 28, 2020 09:28]; edited by Arno Tungler [200128] 
Thank you, Olaf, yes, I overlooked that the wPe2 must also be protected. So another try! [EDIT: As I now see, this is a great joke  h# in 1.5!! Still, you probably get the idea. Will try to find a better version...]
(= 14+32 )
h#118 (??)
The start is with 1... Kh1 2. Bg1 Kxg1 3. Bf2+ Kh1 4. Bg1 Ba2 5. Bde1 Bb3 6. Bcd2 Ba4 7. Bbc1 Bb5 8. B3b2 Ba6 9. B4a3 Bc8 10. B5b4 Bd7 11. B6a5 Be8 12. B7b6 Bf7 13. B8a7 Kxg1 14. Bf2+ Kh1 15. Bde1 Be8 16. Bcd2 Bf7 17. Bg1 Kxg1 20. Bbc1 Bxg6+ 21. Kxg6 Kh1 Then all goes similar to the solution found by Olaf until possibly 61.Kxf1 fxg4! 62. Ke1 Kg1 and at the end the shortest could be something like 113. Kxg2 … 114. Kh1 Kd1 115. g2 Ke1 116. g1=S Kf1 117. Sxe2 Bxe2 118. Bh2 Bxf3# Could also be some moves less, will see, what Gustav says to that...
@James: One small point  at least you can move the bK to g8 and add wRh8 and wPh7 with one move more. 

(29) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Tuesday, Jan 28, 2020 13:22] 
New world record: Cook is 78 times faster than the intended solution. 

(30) Posted by Arno Tungler [Tuesday, Jan 28, 2020 15:52] 
No, Olaf! I sent once a complicated direct moremover with many unusual fairy pieces to Hans Gruber for feenschach. He answered me quickly that the problem was cooked  the white king was in mate in the initial position!! 

(31) Posted by Arno Tungler [Tuesday, Jan 28, 2020 15:54] 
Now I got hopefully a better idea...
(= 14+32 )
h#110 (??)
White moves
The start is with 1... Kh1 and now Black needs to make sure that White can move to g1 after the white bishop is captured on g6 (after capturing h7) 11. Bfe1 Kxg1 12. Bf2+ Kf1 13. Bg1 Kxg1 14. Be1 Bg8 15. Bcd2 Bxh7 16. Bbc1 Bxg6+ 17. Kxg6 Then all goes similar to the solution found by Olaf until possibly 61.Kxd1 Kf1 62. Ke1 Kg1 and at the end the shortest could be something like 102. Kxg2 … 103. Kxh3 Kd1 104. g2 Ke1 105. g1=S Kf1 106. Sxf3 exf3 107. ~ Kg1 108. e2+ Kh1 109. Bf2 Bxe2 110. Bg3 Bf1# Could also be some moves less, ... what does Gustav say?? 

(32) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Wednesday, Jan 29, 2020 00:59] 
It is a h#101.
1... Kh2h1 2.La7b8 Lb1a2 3.Lb6a7 La2b1 4.La5b6 Lb1a2 5.Lb4a5 La2b1 6.La3b4 Lb1a2 7.Lb2a3 La2b1 8.Lc1b2 Lb1a2 9.Ld2c1 La2b1 10.Le1d2 Lb1a2 11.Lf2e1 Kh1xg1 12.Le1f2 Kg1f1 13.Ld2e1 La2b1 14.Lf2g1 Kf1xe1 15.Lc1d2 Ke1f1 16.Lb2c1 Lb1a2 17.Ld2e1 Kf1xe1 18.Lc1d2 Ke1f1 19.Ld2e1 La2b3 20.La3c1 Lb3a4 21.Lb4a3 La4b5 22.La5b4 Lb5a6 23.Lb6a5 La6c8 24.La7b6 Lc8d7 25.Lb8a7 Kf1xe1 26.Lc1d2 Ke1f1 27.Ld2e1 Ld7e8 28.La3c1 Le8f7 29.Lb4a3 Lf7g8 30.La5b4 Kf1xe1 31.Lc1d2 Ke1f1 32.Ld2e1 Lg8xh7 33.La3c1 Lh7xg6 34.Kh5xg6 Kf1xg1 35.Kg6h7 Kg1h1 36.Kh7g8 Kh1g1 37.Lc1d2 Kg1h1 38.Bh6h5 Kh1g1 39.Lg7h6 Kg1h1 40.Lf8g7 Kh1g1 41.Kg8f8 Kg1h1 42.Kf8e8 Kh1g1 43.Ke8d8 Kg1h1 44.Kd8c8 Kh1g1 45.Kc8b8 Kg1h1 46.Kb8a8 Kh1g1 47.La7b8 Kg1h1 48.Ka8a7 Kh1g1 49.Ka7a6 Kg1h1 50.Ka6a5 Kh1g1 51.Ka5a4 Kg1h1 52.Ka4a3 Kh1g1 53.Ka3b2 Kg1h1 54.Kb2c1 Kh1g1 55.Kc1xd1 Kg1h1 56.Kd1c1 Kh1g1 57.Kc1b2 Kg1h1 58.Kb2a3 Kh1g1 59.Ka3a4 Kg1f1 60.Ld2c1 Kf1xe1 61.Ka4a5 Ke1d1 62.Ka5a6 Kd1xc1 63.Ka6a7 Kc1b1 64.Ka7a8 Kb1a2 65.Lb6a5 Ka2b3 66.Lb8a7 Kb3a4 67.Ka8b8 Ka4b5 68.Kb8c8 Kb5a6 69.Kc8d8 Ka6b7 70.Kd8e8 Kb7xa7 71.Ke8f8 Ka7b7 72.Kf8g8 Kb7c8 73.Lg7f8 Kc8d7 74.Lh8g7 Kd7e8 75.Kg8h8 Ke8f7 76.La5b6 Kf7g6 77.Kh8g8 Kg6f5 78.Lg7h8 Kf5g6 79.Lf8g7 Kg6f5 80.Kg8f8 Kf5g6 81.Kf8e8 Kg6f5 82.Ke8d8 Kf5g6 83.Kd8c8 Kg6f5 84.Kc8b8 Kf5g6 85.Kb8a7 Kg6f7 86.Ka7a6 Kf7e8 87.Ka6a5 Ke8d7 88.Ka5a4 Kd7c8 89.Ka4a3 Kc8b7 90.Ka3b2 Kb7a6 91.Kb2c1 Ka6b5 92.Kc1d2 Kb5a4 93.Kd2e1 Ka4b3 94.Ke1f2 Kb3a2 95.Kf2xg2 Ka2b1 96.Kg2xh3 Kb1c1 97.Bg3g2 Kc1d1 98.g2g1S Kd1e1 99.Sg1xf3 Ke1f1 100.Kh3g4 Kf1g2 101.La1b2 Be2xf3# 

(33) Posted by Arno Tungler [Wednesday, Jan 29, 2020 02:28] 
Thank you very much, Olaf! Surprising how much can be economized when you do all in the right order...
Anyhow more should be possible, so do not yet post on PDB! 

(34) Posted by Arno Tungler [Wednesday, Jan 29, 2020 03:58]; edited by Arno Tungler [200130] 
Now I got hopefully a better idea...
(= 14+32 )
h#110 (??)
White moves
The start is with 1... Kh1 and now Black needs to make sure that White can move to g1 after the white bishop is captured on g6 (after capturing h7) 11. Bfe1 Kxg1 12. Bf2+ Kf1 13. Bg1 Kxg1 14. Be1 Bg8 15. Bcd2 Bxh7 16. Bbc1 Bxg6+ 17. Kxg6 Then all goes similar to the solution found by Olaf until possibly 61.Kxd1 Kf1 62. Ke1 Kg1 and at the end the shortest could be something like 102. Kxg2 … 103. Kxh3 Kd1 104. g2 Ke1 105. g1=S Kf1 106. Sxf3 exf3 107. ~ Kg1 108. e2+ Kh1 109. Bf2 Bxe2 110. Bg3 Bf1# Could also be some moves less, ... what does Gustav say?? 

(35) Posted by Arno Tungler [Wednesday, Jan 29, 2020 09:30] 
For the history of the idea probably Shinkman is a nearer forerunner: https://pdb.dieschwalbe.de/P0569741
Maybe Olaf can ask Gustav also about that position... While it is labelled as "cooked" that is at least not right for the mentioned "dual" as talk is obviously not about a dualfree intention. 

(36) Posted by Joose Norri [Wednesday, Jan 29, 2020 15:16] 
This reminds me slightly of the idea of the furthest position. Not very closely related perhaps.
https://timkr.home.xs4all.nl/chess2/diary.htm 

(37) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Wednesday, Jan 29, 2020 18:36]; edited by Olaf Jenkner [200129] 
The h#111 is C+.
1.Kg4h5 Lb1a2 2.Lb6a7 La2b1 3.La5b6 Lb1a2 4.Lb4a5 La2b1 5.La3b4 Lb1a2 6.Lb2a3 La2b1 7.La7b8 Lb1a2 8.Lb6a7 La2b1 9.La5b6 Lb1a2 10.Lb4a5 La2b1 11.La3b4 Lb1a2 12.Lc1a3 La2b1 13.Ld2c1 Lb1a2 14.Lc1b2 La2b1 15.Le1d2 Lb1a2 16.Ld2c1 La2b1 17.Lf2e1 Lb1a2 18.Le1d2 La2b1 19.Lg1f2 Lb1a2 20.Lf2e1 La2b1 21.Lh2g1 Kh1xg1 22.Le1f2 Kg1f1 23.Ld2e1 Lb1a2 24.Lf2g1 Kf1xe1 25.Lc1d2 Ke1f1 26.Lb2c1 La2b1 27.Ld2e1 Kf1xe1 28.Lc1d2 Ke1f1 29.Ld2e1 Kf1xe1 30.La3c1 Ke1f1 31.Lc1d2 Lb1a2 32.Ld2e1 La2b3 33.Lb4a3 Lb3a4 34.La3c1 La4b5 35.La5b4 Lb5a6 36.Lb4a3 La6c8 37.Lb6a5 Lc8d7 38.La5b4 Ld7e8 39.La7b6 Le8f7 40.Lb8a7 Kf1xe1 41.Lc1d2 Ke1f1 42.Ld2e1 Lf7g8 43.La3c1 Lg8xh7 44.Lc1d2 Lh7xg6 45.Kh5xg6 Kf1xg1 46.Kg6h7 Kg1h1 47.Kh7g8 Kh1g1 48.Bh6h5 Kg1h1 49.Lg7h6 Kh1g1 50.Lf8g7 Kg1h1 51.Kg8f8 Kh1g1 52.Kf8e8 Kg1h1 53.Ke8d8 Kh1g1 54.Kd8c8 Kg1h1 55.Kc8b8 Kh1g1 56.Kb8a8 Kg1h1 57.La7b8 Kh1g1 58.Ka8a7 Kg1h1 59.Ka7a6 Kh1g1 60.Ka6a5 Kg1h1 61.Ka5a4 Kh1g1 62.Ka4a3 Kg1h1 63.Ka3b2 Kh1g1 64.Kb2c1 Kg1h1 65.Kc1xd1 Kh1g1 66.Kd1c1 Kg1h1 67.Kc1b2 Kh1g1 68.Kb2a3 Kg1h1 69.Ka3a4 Kh1g1 70.Ka4a5 Kg1f1 71.Ld2c1 Kf1xe1 72.Ka5a6 Ke1d1 73.Ka6a7 Kd1xc1 74.Ka7a8 Kc1b1 75.Lb6a5 Kb1a2 76.Lb8a7 Ka2b3 77.Ka8b8 Kb3a4 78.Kb8c8 Ka4b5 79.Kc8d8 Kb5a6 80.Kd8e8 Ka6xa7 81.Ke8f8 Ka7b7 82.Kf8g8 Kb7c8 83.Lg7f8 Kc8d7 84.Lh8g7 Kd7e8 85.Kg8h8 Ke8f7 86.La5b6 Kf7g6 87.Kh8g8 Kg6f5 88.Lg7h8 Kf5g6 89.Lf8g7 Kg6f5 90.Kg8f8 Kf5g6 91.Kf8e8 Kg6f5 92.Ke8d8 Kf5g6 93.Kd8c8 Kg6f5 94.Kc8b8 Kf5g6 95.Kb8a7 Kg6f7 96.Ka7a6 Kf7e8 97.Ka6a5 Ke8d7 98.Ka5a4 Kd7c8 99.Ka4a3 Kc8b7 100.Ka3b2 Kb7a6 101.Kb2c1 Ka6b5 102.Kc1d2 Kb5a4 103.Kd2e1 Ka4b3 104.Ke1f2 Kb3a2 105.Kf2xg2 Ka2b1 106.Kg2xh3 Kb1c1 107.Bg3g2 Kc1d1 108.g2g1S Kd1e1 109.Sg1xf3 Ke1f1 110.Kh3g4 Kf1g2 111.La1b2 Be2xf3# 

(38) Posted by James Malcom [Wednesday, Jan 29, 2020 20:35]; edited by James Malcom [200129] 
As always, thanks for the testing Olaf!
Amazing job Arno! An extension by a whole 14 moves! I make an offer of cocreation on it, if you like. Also, thanks for that Shinkman one, I remember it now. I have seen before and forgotten, so thanks for bringing to my eyes again. It has its similarities, but I would not consider it one of the role models for my #97. 

(39) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Wednesday, Jan 29, 2020 20:54] 
I tested Shinkman's h#58 and changed the label in the PDB. 

(40) Posted by ichai [Wednesday, Jan 29, 2020 21:36] 
h7 seems to have no use 

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MatPlus.Net Forum General Record for the longest helpmate, in an illegal position? 