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|(21) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Thursday, May 21, 2020 10:47]|
-A possibly higher danger of anticipation in h#2.5 or, say, greater chances for originality in the longer problems. (Which is, of course, to some extent speculation on my part.)
The original proposal was for helpmates in 3 to 4 moves.
We found too many earlier works in this range (mainly threemovers). The theme had also been used in the past in a thematic tournament for h#3.
We reviewed many options and after a quite long discussion, we decided to use the theme asking for longer helpmates.
|(22) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Saturday, Jun 13, 2020 10:05]|
Thanks for warning about h#3 precedents. We will trace then out as our present efforts (we already have a few) are all 3.5 and could very well be anticipated
|(23) Posted by Michel Caillaud [Tuesday, Jul 28, 2020 18:57]|
After some feedback (outside french team), I give here the list of Winchloé identifiers of 57 problems showing the theme of section H (retros) :
30600 39140 39211 48552 50336 62849 72928 96943 97904 123903 154006 181954 208757 228959 252277 263966 285472 286416 286458 301534 303502 322854 355524 355790 361957 407387 413968 421636 422180 430774 430985 432538 442052 453077 478338 504808 507816 518539 541695 542127 563235 577156 577156 577306 577723 577857 580270 600802 617975 654225 660830 664736 669058 670325 677237 700594 747115
This is the result of a manual search (there is no "11th WCCT" keyword...), so some may have escaped the search...
The WCCT theme is present in each of them but is not necessarily the main content...
With so many realizations in so many forms, from AUW in 2 phases (123903) to multiple developments from example 2 (617975 etc.), I suppose that the criteria applied for selecting the helpmate theme were hardly applied here (?).
Of course, the "specialists" will always find their way...
From what has been reported to me, some countries with no "specialist" are struggling to produce something, contrarily to what they experienced with theme from 10th WCCT.
|(24) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Tuesday, Jul 28, 2020 20:45]|
We have no specialists and decided to skip section H (for s different reason,). We will try the ending where also we don't have specialists. Seems our decision is right. Thanks
|(25) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Wednesday, Jul 29, 2020 07:45]|
Thank you Michel, for sharing the list of relevant problems. This will be very useful for composers and judges, alike. The theme is rather challenging by itself, even without considerations of originality. Do we know if the tourney is limited to orthodox proof games? Fairy conditions might spice up the competition.
|(26) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Wednesday, Jul 29, 2020 11:07]|
Fairy conditions are NOT allowed in section H. Twins and multiple solutions are allowed.
|(27) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Wednesday, Jul 29, 2020 22:48]|
Thank you, Harry. I am not surprised.
|(28) Posted by udo [Monday, Aug 3, 2020 13:03]|
some #2 examples 11th WCCT
Schnellsuche, links oben (quick search, top left): wcct11
|(29) Posted by Marjan Kovačević [Monday, Aug 3, 2020 21:14]; edited by Marjan Kovačević [20-08-03]|
Udo, it's a generous help to all our community, thanks so much!
The same goes to Michel!
And now we have the key word "wccct11" in use!
|(30) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Tuesday, Aug 4, 2020 16:29]|
About the 2# theme
If the thematic black moves are only refutations of tries, and do not appear in the actual play, is it thematic ?
|(31) Posted by Branislav Djurašević [Tuesday, Aug 4, 2020 16:30]|
We can give something in return. Namely, my study from this Award (see page 5): http://www.arves.org/arves/images/PDF-Awards/Mikitovics_70_JT_WIN.pdf matches 11.WCCT study theme perfectly.
|(32) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Tuesday, Aug 4, 2020 19:22]|
My understanding of the theme ----
There should be at least one try phase and a post key phase. In both at least two black men should visit the square vacated by the try/ key piece. The black pieces involved can be different in try and key phase. Similarly the white piece making key and try/tries can be different. Since try phase also involve two black men, only one of them can be a refutation, the other has to be a variation move.
|(33) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Tuesday, Aug 4, 2020 20:30]|
Theme (proposed by Great Britain): In a try (or tries) and the key a white unit (including a pawn)
vacates a square which is then occupied in the variation play or in the refutation by at least two
black units. The white thematic unit may be the same or there may be different white units in try
(tries) and key. White’s mates may result from the occupation itself or from some other selfweakening by Black.
"...in the variation play OR in the refutation..."
for example, is this thematic ?
Thèmes-64 1983 1st Prize
(= 9+7 )
1.Sd6? [2.Q(B)e5‡,2.Rf3‡] 1…Be4! &1...Re4!
1.Sg3? [2.Q(B)e5‡,2.Rf3‡,2.Se2‡] 1…Re4!
1.Sg5? [2.Q(B)e5‡,2.Rf3‡] 1…Be4!
1.Sc5? [2.Q(B)e5‡,2.Rf3‡,2.Qe3‡] 1…Re4!
1.Sf6? [2.Q(B)e5‡,2.Rf3‡,2.Sd5‡] 1…Be4!
these two last defenses are only separators and have no importance in the actual play.
They have their full use as refutations only
due to the wording, it should be thematic
due to the examples shown it is not
|(34) Posted by Marcos Roland [Tuesday, Aug 4, 2020 22:05]|
I've just come across two more examples for section helpmates:
(= 6+12 )
1...cxd8=R 2.Qd5+ Rxd5 3.Ke4 e8=S 4.Kxd5 Sf6#
1...c8=B 2.Rxf5+ Bxf5 3.Kf4 exd8=Q 4.Kxf5 Qf6#
(= 4+14 )
1...Rxf4 2.Sg4 Bxc7 (Bxc5?) 3.Ke3 Bd8 4.Kxf4 Bxg5#
1...Bxc5 2.Sb6 Rxg5 (Rxf4?) 3.Kc4 Rg7 4.Kxc5 Rxc7#
Incidentally, the two problems are side by side in the FIDE Album 2010-2012...
|(35) Posted by Michel Caillaud [Wednesday, Aug 5, 2020 17:56]|
Thanks! However the search criteria with wcct11 is to be improved, as, for example, it doesn't spot 118263 and 118264 (A98 and A101 in FIDE Album 2004-06) that are 2 tremendous examples of the theme, probably candidates for top places in WCCT, would they not be already composed...
Theme specifies "a try AND the key"
Your problem is thematic because the moves are present in the solution, even if of no importance. If not present, the problem would not be thematic.
|(36) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Monday, Aug 10, 2020 13:47]|
John Rice thinks it is not thematic because the black thematic moves as variations have no weakening effect
|(37) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Monday, Aug 10, 2020 19:29]|
I agree with John Rice.
|(38) Posted by Michel Caillaud [Tuesday, Aug 11, 2020 08:50]|
Yes, indeed. I didn't read the definition carefully enough... "self-weakening by Black" is clearly stipulated.
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MatPlus.Net Forum Competitions 11th WCCT