MatPlus.Net

 Website founded by
Milan Velimirović
in 2006

14:11 UTC
ISC 2020
 
  Forum*
 
 
 

Username:

Password:

Remember me

 
Forgot your
password?
Click here!
SIGN IN
to create your account if you don't already have one.
CHESS
SOLVING

Tournaments
Rating lists
1-Jul-2020

B P C F





 
 
MatPlus.Net Forum General King Ultimo (NOT)
 
You can only view this page!
(1) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Jul 27, 2020 17:23]

King Ultimo (NOT)


I looked it up: Black moves a piece, and turns it
into a King, iff White then can fulfil the stipulation.

But I'm looking for the same, only Black doesn't turn
it into a king, but declares it royal. (Vast difference :-)
(Also, the iff part seems unnecessary to me, but I plan
a h#1, so it's of no relevance anyway.)

Any fairy experts to the rescue?

Hauke
 
(Read Only)pid=19407
(2) Posted by Vlaicu Crisan [Monday, Jul 27, 2020 18:19]

Not exactly what you are looking for, but I have used something similar during the French meeting back in 2004.

The definition of the fairy condition was: "Instead of moving its own piece, any side can transfer the royalty property from one piece to another. The royalty transfer counts for a move and can't be done when the side is in check."

I think it was also the last time when I composed a [joke] direct two-mover. It was looking something like this (can't remember the exact position):

(= 2+5 )

Of course, nothing changes in the first two half-moves of the solution.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=19408
(3) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Tuesday, Jul 28, 2020 11:20]

I checked, that condition would work in my case either.
(I want to do a promotion task - about 30 different mn-knight
ones by one color, and it's duplex :-)
 
   
(Read Only)pid=19410
(4) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Tuesday, Jul 28, 2020 20:49]

@Vlaicu.. interesting fairy condition. But seems unusable for white.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=19413
(5) Posted by Vlaicu Crisan [Tuesday, Jul 28, 2020 22:34]

@Seetharaman: In the above example, the key is 1.Qe5=rQ! threatening 2.Kg7#

Black has no choice but to pass the royalty power to another piece, hence the following variations:
1...Sa6=rS 2.rQd6#
1...Ba1=rB 2.rQa1#
1...Pb4=rP 2.rQb5#
1...Pc4=rP 2.rQd4#

As you can see, both sides use actively the fairy condition. I think I used the name Royalty Chess, but I am not sure.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=19414
(6) Posted by Ulrich Voigt [Tuesday, Jul 28, 2020 23:26]

Can't Black simply play 1... Bb2+?
 
   
(Read Only)pid=19415
(7) Posted by Vlaicu Crisan [Wednesday, Jul 29, 2020 22:24]

You are right, Ulrich! I actually don't remember the exact position.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=19419
(8) Posted by Eric Huber [Sunday, Aug 2, 2020 22:52]; edited by Eric Huber [20-08-02]

The position was slightly different, with bBa2 instead of bBa3:
(= 2+5 )


Hence the different variation 1...Ba2=rB 2.rQb2# and no cook with 1...Bb2+
 
   
(Read Only)pid=19442
(9) Posted by Geir Sune Tallaksen Østmoe [Monday, Aug 3, 2020 22:38]

I suppose this condition means that you are not stalemated as long as you can pass the royalty to an unthreatened piece?

(= 3+2 )

#2
 
   
(Read Only)pid=19458
(10) Posted by Vlaicu Crisan [Tuesday, Aug 4, 2020 12:29]

That's correct: in Regency, the stalemate occurs when you can't move AND you can't transfer the royalty power to another friend unit.
Unfortunately, your two-mover is cooked by 1.Kf5 - I assume the intended solution is 1.Pg2=rP.

Of course, there is absolutely no theory regarding the possibility of royalty transfer to neutral pieces.
For the time being let's not complicate things thinking of the possible combinations with Rex Multiplex, Transmuted Kings or other fairy conditions...

[Later edit] I missed to see that 1.Pg2=rP is indeed stalemate, as the bK can't transfer the regency to bPg3.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=19461
(11) Posted by Siegfried Hornecker [Tuesday, Aug 4, 2020 15:00]

Allow me a question? I understand that the royalty transfer is possible only once?
Is 1.Pg2=royal not stalemate? Black can't move the king nor transfer the royalty (unless you can transfer it from king to king?).

But I would be interested - isn't this a viable idea for practical chess? You can play normally, but can ONCE per game transfer the royalty instead of making a move. Maybe essentially zero moves (from king to itself) could be excluded. In the vast majority of situations, not much would change, but sacrificial attacks and such would be more difficult. So that would be more something for strategical chess.

I consider the Annan tourney from some years back a complete disaster, btw, as White always gained a considerable - decisive? - advantage with 1.Pc2xh7.
 
   
(Read Only)pid=19462
(12) Posted by Geir Sune Tallaksen Østmoe [Wednesday, Aug 5, 2020 07:15]

Yes, I agree that Pg2=rP is stalemate, so my intended solution was 1.Kf5 (zugzwang) Pg3=rP 2.Kf4#.

It would be interesting to try this for practical chess, although I suspect it will make more endgames drawn. Especially queen endgames.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=19468

No more posts


MatPlus.Net Forum General King Ultimo (NOT)