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MatPlus.Net Forum General Diagonal corner-to-corner knight in a selfmate?
 
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(1) Posted by Steven Dowd [Wednesday, Sep 2, 2009 13:32]

Diagonal corner-to-corner knight in a selfmate?


I've seen only a few problems outside the series realm that featured a diagonal corner-corner S - that is one that travels from a8 to h1 or h8 to a1 etc - for black, as the mating piece.

In such a problem, a minimal with an ideal mate would also, be, well, ideal.

It would seem to be very hard to do. Anyone know of any examples? Anything close?
 
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(2) Posted by Vlaicu Crisan [Friday, Sep 4, 2009 17:43]

I used a fairy condition (MirrorCirce) in order to realize a s#6, which turned out to be unsound.
However I don't remember the problem - it was published in Phenix quite a long time ago.
Can anyone help me?
 
 
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(3) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Friday, Sep 4, 2009 20:50]

Vlaicu Crisan
Phénix 1992
(= 14+5 )

s#6
Mirror Circe
b) Pd2>g2

a) is cooked (actually the important phase for this discussion), b) is ok.
 
   
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(4) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 11:31]

You can find all problems in the PBD using this query:

not g='fairies'and not g='retro'and stip='s#'
and (sol='Sa1#'or sol='Sxa1#'or sol='Sh8#'or sol='Sxh8#'or
sol='Sa8#'or sol='Sxa8#'or sol='Sh1#'or sol='Sxh1#')

Only one problem will by found despite of the starting
position of the knight.
There is a lot to do for composers.

Olaf
 
   
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(5) Posted by Geoff Foster [Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 12:15]

Here is a helpselfmate of mine in which the black knight moves from corner to corner, but not to a diagonally opposite corner.

(= 7+3 )

HS#7
Geoff Foster, Mat Plus, Spring-Summer 2009

1.Sf5 Sg3 2.e4 Se2 3.d6 Sf4 4.d5 Sg6 5.Bd4 Sh8 6.Ke5 Kf8 7.Sf6 Sg6 #
 
   
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(6) Posted by Joost de Heer [Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 12:26]

Rudolf Prytz, Allgemeine Zeitung Chemnitz 1938
(= 10+4 )

s#6
1. Bh1 S~ 2. Qb7 S(bc)d5 3. Qb4 Sxb4 4. d3 Sbxd3 5. Sf2 Sxf2 6. Sh2 Sxh1#
 
   
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(7) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 13:43]

I see there is a lot to put into the PBD.
I added the problem which was released in my hometown.

Olaf
 
   
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(8) Posted by Steven Dowd [Saturday, Sep 5, 2009 17:16]

Henry Tanner found nearly the same position, only with WB already on h1 and 1. Rg5 as anti-critical move. I always did like Pyrtz's work.....
 
   
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(9) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Friday, Aug 9, 2019 20:46]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [19-08-09]

It's not a selfmate problem, but I whipped up this legal diagonal corner to corner directmate problem in about ten minutes. This is just mainly to show the idea in a direct form. Could better economy possibly be achieved?

WTM, #6

(= 11+5 )

 
   
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(10) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Aug 9, 2019 21:15]

Dualistic, second move Sd6 also mates in 6.
 
 
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(11) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Friday, Aug 9, 2019 21:24]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [19-08-09]

I have come up with a motivation for a diagonal corner-to-corner knight move in a selfmate-to cover a flight square!

Ignoring the grave illegality of the position, as this is my first try at this theme (plus it was extremely challenging!), I came up with a way to do it.

WTM, s#7

(= 9+13 )


White can force a selfmate by capturing with the c4 knight on d6, but that would leave a spot on b6 that the Black king can escape to, thus it needs to be covered. But since neither rooks can do it, for reasons that I feel are obvious, only the knight in the corner can do it. Now, from what square can b6 be covered from? There are six possible sqaure. Three contain same-colored pieces, and the other two would block off the rooks and allow the BK to escape. Thus the a8 corner is the only option.

Meanwhile, Black moves his only mobile piece, the h7 pawn, in attempt to free his light-sqaured bishop and prevent the selfmate. However, White is just in time.

My Solution: 1. Nf2 h5 2. Nd1 h4 3. Nc3 hxg3 4. Nb5 g2 5. Nc7 g3 6. Na8 Bg4 7. Nxd6+ Rxd6#

Is this cooked, not counting duals as cooks?

I am certain that I will be able to make a legal version of this idea someday!

EDIT: Already an unfortunate cook: 1. Nf2 h6 2. Nd1 h5 3. Nc3 h4 4. Nb5 hxg3 5. Nbxd6+ Rxd6#

At least I have an idea down.
 
   
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(12) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Friday, Aug 9, 2019 22:20]

What he asked in the first post is making black knight go from corner-corner, which is immensely difficult.
 
   
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(13) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Saturday, Aug 10, 2019 01:42]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [19-08-10]

Oof me, but eh well. It's still challenging enough for me to create one where the selfmating side does the knight maneuver

I have almost created a cook-free one, with duals allowed for. It is a legal position, although it does use a promoted piece.

There is a cook in 6. This is to show my best efforts so far.

WTM,s#7

(= 10+8 )


EDIT: I finally made a damned cook-free one that also has no duals?l! I honestly just don't give a care about the Ilegal position. I JUST FINALLY FOUND SOMETHING THAT WORKS!

WTM, s#7

(= 15+16 )


EDIT: Now I've managed to make a legal version of of the above concept! Dual-free?!

The promoted White bishop is a slight blemish though.

WTM, s#7

(= 13+10 )

 
   
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(14) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Saturday, Aug 10, 2019 06:59]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [19-08-10]

Hey seetharaman, answer the original question, I've managed to make an ORTHODOX
selfmate that forces a Black knight from one corner to corner!

Sure it comes with an extra White queen, but this is the simplest setting that I could find!

WTM, s#10

(= 12+3 )


This also took me some time to produce.

Making this without any promoted pieces would be a woozy for me!
 
   
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(15) Posted by Olaf Jenkner [Saturday, Aug 10, 2019 16:02]

Cooked in 9:

1. Dxh8+ Ke4,Kf4 2. Ddh4+ Ke3,Kf3 3. Sd2 Ke2 4. Te6+ Kxd2 5. a3 Kd3 6. Dg3+ Kd2 7. Ka2 Kc2 8. c4 bxc4 9. Db3+ cxb3#
4. ... Kd3 5. a3 Kxd2 6. c4+ Kd3 7. Ka2 Kc2 8. Dg3 bxc4 9. Db3+ cxb3#
7. ... bxc4 8. Dg3+ Kc2 9. Db3+ cxb3#
3. ... Ke3 4. Te6+ Kxd2 5. a3 Kd3 6. Dg3+ Kd2 7. Ka2 Kc2 8. c4 bxc4 9. Db3+ cxb3#
4. ... Kd3 5. a3 Kxd2 6. c4+ Kd3 7. Ka2 Kc2 8. Dg3 bxc4 9. Db3+ cxb3#
7. ... bxc4 8. Dg3+ Kc2 9. Db3+ cxb3#
 
   
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(16) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Saturday, Aug 10, 2019 19:13]; edited by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [19-08-10]

I suppose that the only way to eliminate cooks then is to get rid of that Black pawn altogether.

WTM, s#10

(= 14+2 )


Unless there's some way to get the BK to cover the c2 sqaure, have White cover the a3, and get the BN to checkmate the WK in a dual of 10 moves or less..
 
   
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(17) Posted by Joost de Heer [Saturday, Aug 10, 2019 21:53]

Black knight corner to corner has been done by Prytz in 6 moves, see earlier diagram in this thread.
 
   
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(18) Posted by Rewan Demontay (Real Name: J. Malcom) [Monday, Aug 12, 2019 03:21]

Oh, I didn't see that there. Oh well. It was still fun to create my own though!
 
   
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(19) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Aug 12, 2019 09:47]

Cf. also P1274983 for a direct mate version.

BTW, does one know a king version? I did one in the SCHWALBE
but it was kaput and I never managed to get it right.
(Obviously, the last K move doesn't mate, it's just a foreplan.)
 
   
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(20) Posted by Juraj Lörinc [Tuesday, Aug 13, 2019 05:51]

By king version, do you mean something like No 235 at page 14 of http://juliasfairies.com/wp-content/uploads/conflictio_017.pdf?
 
   
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Diagonal corner-to-corner knight in a selfmate?