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MatPlus.Net Forum General Added mate
 
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(1) Posted by Sven Hendrik Lossin [Sunday, Jan 27, 2013 23:33]

Added mate


In Milans Encaclopedia this #2 is shown under "added mate":
(= 10+5 )

Otto Wurzburg 1913

1.Kb2! 8 added mates.

Is this the record of added mates with a complete block?
 
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(2) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, Jan 28, 2013 12:32]

Buy the "Morse"* (no 2# composer shall ever go without it)
or wait until tomorrow when I either have forgotten your query
or looked it up in my copy (or another dude here has his
copy at hand faster :-)

Hauke

* http://www.amazon.com/Chess-Problems-Records-Jeremy-Morse/dp/0571153631
 
 
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(3) Posted by [Thursday, Jan 31, 2013 19:45]

(= 10+11 )

F.J. Kovacs
L'Echiquier de Paris, IX-X/1950
1. Kb5!
+ 9
 
   
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(4) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Thursday, Jan 31, 2013 21:57]

A similar setup is by Govert A. Croes, Parallèle 50 1950, http://www.yacpdb.org/?id=39537

Based on the 8-fold matrix of Hugo Rohr, Deutsche Tageszeitung 1922, http://www.yacpdb.org/?id=39531
 
   
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(5) Posted by Arno Tungler [Friday, Feb 1, 2013 02:58]

Wurzburg's problem seems superior as it really "adds" all the new mates, while in the other quoted problems two of them already occur in the set, one even in a dualistic line that spoils somehow the matrix.
 
   
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(6) Posted by Sven Hendrik Lossin [Saturday, Feb 2, 2013 22:21]

Thanks for your kind help!
 
   
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(7) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Friday, Feb 15, 2013 11:00]

Sven, sorry I forgot to look it up so long.

This is a case for the experts! :-)
(= 11+2 )

J. Morse, Financial Expert 1973

10 added mates
(Without stalemate, 8 still are record)


Hauke
 
   
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(8) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Friday, Feb 15, 2013 11:49]; edited by Jacques Rotenberg [13-02-15]

The first problem showing this I could find is by Guglielmo and Luigi Mai, Magasinet 1931 (less good than the Morse's version).

In any case I don't think this should be seen as "added mates". I feel that "added mates" is fit for block problems, and this one is not.
 
   
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(9) Posted by [Sunday, Feb 17, 2013 19:05]

(= 14+2 )


after Morse

+11
 
   
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(10) Posted by Michael McDowell [Sunday, Feb 17, 2013 20:26]

Jeremy is currently preparing a new edition of his book and I am sure he will want to include this improvement. Do you want it to be (version by Anon) or would you like to reveal your identity?

(By the way the original source is Financial Times 1973)
 
   
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(11) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Monday, Feb 18, 2013 00:12]; edited by Zalmen Kornin [13-02-18]

Three white bishops, Mister Point ??! ... Well, I guess sir Jeremy may be aware of this... I mean, he could use extra material too ...
 
   
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(12) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Monday, Feb 18, 2013 00:24]; edited by Zalmen Kornin [13-02-18]

found here eleven mates in original version without extra set material, however - the mates are not added, the mates after black Rook moves are already set-mates ... edit: (sketch removed)
 
   
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(13) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Monday, Feb 18, 2013 01:24]; edited by Zalmen Kornin [13-02-22]

edit later: sketch removed
 
   
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(14) Posted by Michael McDowell [Monday, Feb 18, 2013 07:56]

Whoops! Hadn't noticed the third white bishop (that really gives me confidence for next weekend's British Solving Final...)

Yes that rather changes things. Dot - your anonymity is secure.
 
   
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(15) Posted by Zalmen Kornin [Monday, Feb 18, 2013 12:55]; edited by Zalmen Kornin [13-02-22]

,,,(of course the sketch above contains a nasty dual - 1...Ne6) ... pretext enough for:


(= 15+9 )
#2
FEN 2b5/1p1p2pP/1pPQP3/1P1P1BNp/3k4/K1r2P2/1p1N1P2/B3R1R1

(besides of the ten rook moves, five black pawn moves ... the mate dxc6 repeats itself three times ... no problem - the whole is posed as a demonstration of where could we arrive with methods (here the white king in check) not proper to gentlemen ...)
Even so, a proof can easily evolve where none of the fifteen black moves would ever afford some set-mate before the actual key, for instance

(frame) (= 16+9 )
00...Kd4+ 0.c3+ Rxc3+


*** (not a record breaking attempt, just an exercise on ...)

**** OR - maybe there's a "sudden-block" here - Before the key - no threat, no block not even a single set-mate - AFTER the key Black is in Zugzwang ... !!??

***** Conclusion so far Wurzburg, some others (complete block 8 mates added) , Morse, brothers Mai (apparent stalemate 10 mates)

Thus, two different records, each with their own merits and intrinsic characteristics.
 
 
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MatPlus.Net Forum General Added mate