MatPlus.Net

 Website founded by
Milan Velimirović
in 2006

1:46 CET
 
  Forum*
 
 
 
 

Username:

Password:

Remember me

 
Forgot your
password?
Click here!
SIGN IN
to create your account if you don't already have one.
CHESS
SOLVING

Rating lists
01-Jul-2019

B P C F





 
 
MatPlus.Net Forum General Madrasi - definition issue
 
You can only view this page!
(1) Posted by Vlaicu Crisan [Sunday, Sep 5, 2010 14:57]

Madrasi - definition issue


The definition issues can appear in conjunction with combination of very respectable genres (Madrasi - 1979 and MarsCirce - 1980). Madrasi definition is "a piece attacked by a piece of the same type but opposite colour is paralysed and becomes unable to move, capture or give check". Now the question is: what does it mean "attacked"?

In order to understand properly the question, let's have a look at the following position:
(= 3+2 )
+1 (Check in 1 move)

A: Madrasi
B: Madrasi + MarsCirce

A possible interpretation is: a piece is under attack only if a King of the same colour placed on the same square will be in check.

In A, bBa7 would give check to wKc5, so wBc5 is paralysed. The only way to release the paralysis and give check to bK is to play 1.Rb6+.
A more interesting situation appears in B. Again, wKc5 would be in check from bBa7 (via f8!), but now the release of the paralysis is 1.Rd6+ (wB gives check via c1!).

I believe WinChloe accepts this definition in B, while Popeye doesn't (it considers the paralysis on orthodox lines). According to this interpretation of the definition, it appears that in B wBc5 is paralysed, while bBa7 is not paralysed. This kind of situation, in which only one piece is paralysed, is called half paralysis. A similar case of half paralysis can occur in the combinations Madrasi + AntiCirce, Madrasi + neutrals, Madrasi + Koeko.

Which are fairy experts opinions on this topic?
 
(Read Only)pid=5828
(2) Posted by Frank Richter [Sunday, Sep 5, 2010 15:56]

Some years ago Arnold Beine pointed out the possibility of half paralysis ("Halblähmung" in German).
There was a theme tourney in harmonie - here is the award:
http://problemschach.de/harmonie/thematur/tt12.pdf

It is well-known that there are no exact definitions for a lot of combinations between two or more fairy conditions.
 
(Read Only)pid=5829
(3) Posted by Joost de Heer [Sunday, Sep 5, 2010 16:02]

My interpretation of Madrasi+Mars Circe is that in b), Ba7 isn't observed, but Bc5 is. I've used this combination (Madrasi+Mars Circe, although there's a 3rd condition NoCapture to avoid a cook) in one composition:

Joost de Heer, feenschach
(= 2+1 )

h=2** Madrasi, Mars Circe, NoCapture

*1... b7 2. e1=Q+ b8=Q=
*1... b7 2. e1=R+ b8=R=
1. e1=B b7 2. Bd2 b8=B=
1. e1=S b7 2. Sf3 b8=S=
 
(Read Only)pid=5830
(4) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Sunday, Sep 5, 2010 16:53]

<A possible interpretation is: a piece is under attack only if a King of the same colour placed on the same square will be in check.>

This was the definition of Mr.Karwatkar with the additional words -- "in orthodox chess".

When he invented and defined Madrasi he apparently did not consider the implications of Madrasi in combination with other fairy conditions.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=5831
(5) Posted by Kevin Begley [Tuesday, Sep 7, 2010 16:54]

<A possible interpretation is: a piece is under attack only if a King of the same colour placed on the same square will be in check.>

This "interpretation" fails, even in the simple case of Madrasi alone, when you consider en passant.
Of course, the inventor of Madrasi did not intend to allow en passant paralysis.
Nevertheless, it is widely accepted today.
 
 
(Read Only)pid=5834

No more posts


MatPlus.Net Forum General Madrasi - definition issue