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| | | (1) Posted by Vilimantas Satkus [Friday, May 7, 2010 22:27] | Festival
Can anybody explain why there are need for two retro themes in such grandiose tourney as PCCC 50th Anniversary Composing Festival?
| | | (2) Posted by Kevin Begley [Saturday, May 8, 2010 04:56] |
Maybe the PCCC is finally beginning to understand the value of Retros!?
Hopefully they will not forget to increase the (relative) number of Retros in each album.
Shameful not to gallery the better problems of the day, given the excess demonstrated in some of the title pursuits.
| | | (3) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Saturday, May 8, 2010 22:59] |
Where is the announcement of this tournament ?
| | | (4) Posted by Joost de Heer [Saturday, May 8, 2010 23:44] |
QUOTE
Can anybody explain why there are need for two retro themes in such grandiose tourney as PCCC 50th Anniversary Composing Festival?
Why are there 3 direct-mate themes?
QUOTE
Hopefully they will not forget to increase the (relative) number of Retros in each album.
Fewer people send retro compositions to the album, so fewer compositions end up in it. That has nothing to do with PCCC appreciating retro's or not.
QUOTE
Where is the announcement of this tournament ?
http://www.sci.fi/~stniekat/pccc/pccc50fest.htm
| | | (5) Posted by Kevin Begley [Sunday, May 9, 2010 04:41]; edited by Kevin Begley [10-05-09] |
Joost:
"Fewer people send retro compositions to the album, so fewer compositions end up in it. That has nothing to do with PCCC appreciating retro's or not."
Well, everybody plays this card, but you should know that it is not of a logical deck...
Which is to say, please beware the "omnipresent dangers of achieving wrong combinations from accurate information."
Retros have always been under-represented.
In fact, even the early albums require serious revision (to account for historical bias).
Remember, recently, when the Retro judges were asked to lower their marks?
If memory serves, some initially refused, insisting that their marks cannot be based upon quotas.
Ultimately, the marks were lowered, and many deserving Retros were left out.
[edit: suppose the 3 best problems of 2010 are Retros -- which would not surprise me -- but only 4 retros are sent to the album, the current system keeps how many?]
So, your solution here is what?
-Retro composers must crank out more problems?
This gives "prolific composer" new meaning!?
Unlike some other genres, Retros are not so cheaply produced.
-We should encourage them to send higher quantities (please include all sub-standard works)?
This only drags Retros down into the detritus of some other genres.
The damaged structure of the album has long required treatment.
Dinosaurs would have addressed this with greater expedience.
"Every civilization must contend with an unconscious force which can block, betray or countermand almost any conscious intention of the collectivity."
-Tleilaxu Theorem (unproven).
Let us recall the original, conscious intent of the album: It was to become a "perfect storehouse of our relic memories!"
In our case, that unconscious force is obvious: Titles Race ("The power to destroy a thing is the absolute control over it.").
So, how are we contending?
My advice to the PCCC:
1) Try looking into that place where you dare not look! You'll find Chris Feather's absence there, staring out at you!
2) The eye that looks ahead to the safe course is closed forever.
3) The sleeper must awaken.
| | | (6) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Sunday, May 9, 2010 06:48] |
Kevin wrote:
QUOTE
Unlike some other genres, Retros are not so cheaply produced.
I think this is NOT true. In my opinion in every genre there are cheaply produced problems and there are high quality problems that are taking lot of time to produce. It’s completely wrong to value one genre more than other. I can find in all genres very bad and very good problems. Since I do compose problems from different genres I am very confident in my statement. Personally I think this is wrong to add one extra retros group.
Kevin, do you have some proof for your statement?
| | | (7) Posted by Per Olin [Sunday, May 9, 2010 10:10] |
Have a look at what is said about the Festival in Uralski Problemist; message dated May 6th. Note also the message dated 7th of May about the PCCC budget.
| | | (8) Posted by Joost de Heer [Sunday, May 9, 2010 11:06] |
A proofgame is as different from a classic retro as a twomover is from a threemover. There are separate categories for 2- and 3-movers, so why not for proofgames and other retro's?
| | | (9) Posted by Jacques Rotenberg [Sunday, May 9, 2010 11:55] |
Could you translate Per ?
| | | (10) Posted by Kevin Begley [Sunday, May 9, 2010 15:26]; edited by Kevin Begley [10-05-09] |
Miodrag,
>"Kevin, do you have some proof for your statement?"
First, please allow me to withdraw the connotations inherent in the word "cheap."
It was in poor taste -- especially given present company -- and, I regret not having searched for alternative wording.
That said, I do hold to my statement, firmly.
The time & effort to produce a Retro/ProofGame of given quality (say, 1 album-point) far exceeds, generally, all other genres.
To prove such an obvious thing, I fear, would only serve to call the matter into question.
I might go into detail about the impact of computer assistance...
I do have enough experience to admit that the computer can be a highly useful (and productive) tool.
...and, that problems unaided by computer assistance deserve more points (relatively) -- regardless of genre.
I might attack implied myths about an inverse relationship (generally) between complexity and problem length...
But, you merely need produce a two-mover with no counterpart, of equal complexity, in three-moves...
Then, it's all hail the brilliance of Forsberg, and I can't remember, what were we talking about?
No thanks -- the myth wears quite fashionably -- like a wolf's grin.
Instead, I will rely exclusively upon the expert testimony of a composer of unchallenged esteem.
I call Miodrag to the stand.
Swear to tell the blah blah blah, the whole yadah yadah, so help the scarecrow in the rain...etc?
You have composed problems of all genres -- strike that!
You have composed many outstanding problems of all genres...
Please the court, I would like to address the witness in a hypothetical pursuit of truth.
Objecti-- Over ruled! Move to- Denied!
Suppose...just suppose... three days... just that... a marathon... compose as many two-movers (of any genre), and for each commendation (or better) earned, you shall receive $10k... no, it's crumcake... Gold!... One brick of... solid! eh?
Now then, how many bricks... gold... how much gold do you think you could take from the fellow on the gameshow?
You need a ride home in a bank truck, yes?
But, now, in exchange for the use of a computer... to verify your problems... would you be willing to pass on the first brick?
It's just a brick, right? What do you want carrying... wait...uh oh, what was that sound... the idiot gameshow host is... you landed on ProofGames or Retros!!? Can't you just feel the camera zooming in on you as the crowd sighs?
Have you got a good wheelbarrow?
I mean, that's going to be a load of weight on the wheel...right?
Wait... Wild Card Bonus! You can keep your genre, or spin for one of the other genres! What will it be?
Can't you hear the audience chanting, "spin the damn wheel!"
...you get the point... even the very best Retro composers (and I mean exclusively Retro!) probably would spin.
The gameshow is real...
Only the time frame is three years (not days), it's for album points (not commendations), and its all fool's gold!
I rest my case.
| | | (11) Posted by Guy Sobrecases [Sunday, May 9, 2010 17:46] |
On the "news" written by Andrej on his website, dated May, 6th, I can already translate this on the .11:
Sobregases = Sobrecases.
| | | (12) Posted by Per Olin [Sunday, May 9, 2010 18:45] |
Question asked: Could you translate Per ?
Answer: When I use automatic translation, I get it into Finnish. That does not help much, I suppose. These automatic translations are of poor quality, so it can be that I don't get the right/complete message. Hope somebody else can help.
| | | (13) Posted by Cornel Pacurar [Sunday, May 9, 2010 20:22] |
Well, the Russian-to-English Google translation is not that bad - it can be understood, at least in part! Here is the direct link: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.selivanov.ru%2Fnewss%2F%3Fact%3Dshow_news%26id%3D215
| | | (14) Posted by Hauke Reddmann [Monday, May 10, 2010 10:40] |
@Per: Depends to which good. If you can get Korppiklaani to
use the resulting text as lyrics for their next Folk metal song,
I'll promise to headbang to it on the next meeting :-)
Hauke "Maistoi mustekala mahtia!" Reddmann
| | | (15) Posted by Guy Sobrecases [Monday, May 10, 2010 14:44] |
Wonderful! After only few hours, "Sobregases" has been changed for "Sobrecases" on the Andrej's website. Thank you so much Andrej for your fast reaction.
As it seems that the Mat Plus forum is a magic wand, may I also remind you this message sent on July, 3rd, 2009? (how time flies!)
"Dear Andrej,
Thank you for publishing the award of Y. Lazarev-85, but it seems that my name is not correctly written (pb 35, h#n, 1° Prize).
http://www.selivanov.ru/download/Awards/2008/Lasarh.pdf
Would you please be so kind to make the correction, if possible?
Best wishes.
Guy."
| | | (16) Posted by Per Olin [Monday, May 10, 2010 19:59] |
@Hauke: we are impressed by your knowledge about Finnish metal culture. Hope that by end of this day you are impressed by Finnish icehockey...
| | | (17) Posted by Kevin Begley [Tuesday, May 11, 2010 00:43]; edited by Kevin Begley [10-05-11] |
My proposal for categories:
1.Direct-Play (all forms: Orthodox, Fairy & Variants) : #2, #3, #n, s#, r#, Studies, ser.#n, ser.s#n, ser.r#n, etc
2.Help-Play (all forms: Orthodox, Fairy & Variants) : h#, hs#, ProofGames, ser.h#n, etc
3.All others (all forms: Orthodox, Fiary & Variants) : Retros, Math, Construction Tasks, Joke Problems, etc
No more orthodox chess bias.
No more bias against all but two fairy forms (read: h# and s#).
No more bias against all but one chess variant (Game of the Mad Queen).
No more guarantees that lifeless genres will receive an eternity of false recognition.
No more allowing pet genres to set their own standards (read: drive them into the floor, to propel their own into titles).
No more denying that non-essential Fairy elements constitute a serious flaw.
No more complete detachment from overall impression given the intended audience (the solver!).
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