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MatPlus.Net  Forum Competitions FIDE Album 2013-2015 Announcement |
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| | | (1) Posted by Thomas Brand [Monday, Nov 30, 2015 22:51] | FIDE Album 2013-2015 Announcement
The announcement for the FIDE-Album 2013-2015 is pubished:
http://www.wfcc.ch/wp-content/uploads/FIDE-Album-2013-15-announcement.pdf
Closing date is June 1st, 2016.
| | | (2) Posted by Andrey Selivanov [Wednesday, Dec 2, 2015 15:27] |
Submission of entries to the judges: September 1st, 2016
Reports by the directors and announcement of results: April 1st, 2018
19(!!!) months for the judges...No comments!
| | | (3) Posted by Ian Shanahan [Thursday, Dec 3, 2015 07:09]; edited by Ian Shanahan [15-12-05] |
1. I wondered where Andrey had gleaned his information regarding this 19-month hiatus. It certainly is not part of the Announcement PDF. Only by going to the WFCC website did I read this, under the "Instructions to Directors and Judges" page - Annex 3:
http://www.wfcc.ch/fide-albums/fa1315sl/fa-duties-directors-judges/
QUOTE
ANNEX 3: TIMETABLE OF THE 2013-2015 ALBUM
Closing date: June 1st, 2016
Submission of entries to the judges: September 1st, 2016
Reports by the directors and announcement of results: April 1st, 2018
Submission of selected entries to the editor: June 1st, 2018
Indexing, typesetting and printing: December 1st, 2019.
The quoted passage should also be part of the Announcement PDF!!! (Harry F. [or whoever], please append this information to the Announcement PDF!)
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2. Furthermore, I read about Directors needing to extract individual pages (i.e. those pages pertaining to the selected entries, if any) from each entrant's multi-page PDF submission. It might, therefore, be a good idea to inform entrants to adjust the security settings on their PDF submissions accordingly, in order to easily facilitate such extractions! (This too really ought to be part of the Announcement PDF.)
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3. Recently on the MatPlus Forum, there has been some 'lively discussion' (to put it euphemistically!) concerning the MINIMUM number of submitted compositions allowed per category - i.e. no less than 4[edit] compositions. Is this still the case, because there is NO MENTION WHATSOEVER of any such minimum in the Announcement PDF? Or has the matter been tacitly dropped?
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| | | (4) Posted by Thomas Brand [Thursday, Dec 3, 2015 07:51] |
@ Ian,
Concerning your topic 3: This was a discussion on WCCI, where a minimum of entries is required, but his is not valid for the FIDE Album.
See the WCCI rules (http://www.wfcc.ch/competitions/composing/wcci2013-15/):
4. A composer may submit to each section no more than 6 and no less than 4 compositions published in the defined three-year period.
| | | (5) Posted by Ian Shanahan [Thursday, Dec 3, 2015 08:44]; edited by Ian Shanahan [15-12-04] |
@ Thomas
Many thanks for your clarification (and apologies for my confusing the two events). I see now that your quote - "4. A composer may submit to each section no more than 6 and no less than 4 compositions published in the defined three-year period." - comes from the WCCI page, and *not* from the FIDE Album announcement.
Purely out of curiosity, are you acting officially on behalf of the WFCC, particularly in relation to the WFCC's recent official announcements (such as the two PDF pages I refer to above)? Or - just like me - are you simply an interested problemist? Anyway, whatever, kind regards from me!
| | | (6) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Thursday, Dec 3, 2015 09:25] |
QUOTE
Purely out of curiosity, are you acting officially on behalf of the WFCC, particularly in relation to the WFCC's recent official announcements (such as the two PDF pages I refer to above)?
Ian, if you need some clarification you should contact the spokesman of the album committee (please via email, not posting to a forum).
| | | (7) Posted by Frank Richter [Thursday, Dec 3, 2015 16:07] |
@ Andrej:
It may take some time to rate ~1500 fairy problems ...
And any judge may do his job faster, if he likes resp. is able to do this.
| | | (8) Posted by Ian Shanahan [Friday, Dec 4, 2015 08:32] |
Hello Harry. No offence intended! I now see - from the WFCC website - that you are the FIDE Album spokesman. Rather than a private e-mail exchange, I simply thought that it would be more useful for the chess-problem community to raise certain issues publicly.
Any thoughts regarding the suggestions I made earlier (i.e. amending the Announcement as I proposed)?
| | | (9) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Friday, Dec 4, 2015 11:23] |
QUOTE
No offence intended! I now see - from the WFCC website - that you are the FIDE Album spokesman. Rather than a private e-mail exchange, I simply thought that it would be more useful for the chess-problem community to raise certain issues publicly.
I have no problem someone raising "certain issues" publicly, as we have nothing to hide. However before someone decides following that way, he should first clarify in private with the responsible (and authorised) persons. Otherwise he runs the risk to create confusion to others who are reading the forum.
QUOTE
Any thoughts regarding the suggestions I made earlier (i.e. amending the Announcement as I proposed)?
Amending an announcement a few days after is issued only for cosmetic reasons (i.e. to include the time schedule in it although the time schedule is already publicly available on the site) is not a good idea. If we do so, people may start thinking that something fishy is going on... The announcement intends to inform the composers about when and to who they should submit their entries, how many entries they are allowed to submit, what format they must use and so on. It was always like that in all album announcements so far.
If we amend the announcement to include the time schedule, then we should also add the information how the compositions are going to be selected (there's not a single word in the announcement about the selection process.) I repeat, all this information is already available on the site on a dedicated page and in a separate PDF document.
With regard to your remark about the security settings of the PDF files that the composers will submit. I agree that some composers may be suspicious or afraid that the director may manipulate their entries (!!) and decide to submit protected PDF files. The director will spot it when he tries to add the reference Nos. to those entries and obviously he will write back to them that he is not able to do so. Therefore it is self-evident that the composers must submit unprotected documents. By the way, one may also ask how the directors will add the reference Nos., how they are going to extract the selected compositions, etc. (as you know, you cannot do it with a plain PDF reader.) We have already provided the necessary software and detailed technical instructions to the directors how they are going to do all that.
| | | (10) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Dec 4, 2015 11:55] |
How can I veto publication of joint compositions in the FIDE album? I don't want to be in the album, and I don't give permission to publish joint compositions in the album, even if the person I composed it with submits it.
| | | (11) Posted by Harry Fougiaxis [Friday, Dec 4, 2015 14:40] |
@ Joost: I am afraid you cannot.
| | | (12) Posted by Miodrag Mladenović [Friday, Dec 4, 2015 15:39] |
@Joost: QUOTE
How can I veto publication of joint compositions in the FIDE album?
Well it does not make any sense to publish half of the diagram :). It would not be fair to the co-owner of the problem to prevent him to send problem to the FA. Unless you warned him in advance that you do not want to send problem to the FA. I know that founder of this site late Milan Velimirovic did not send his problems for a while. However he was never preventing me or other problemists to send their join compositions to the FA. I recommend you that next time when you want to compose join composition you first make verbal agreement that problem will not be send to the FA.
| | | (13) Posted by Joost de Heer [Friday, Dec 4, 2015 19:05] |
IMO a joint composition should only be allowed in the album if all authors agree to it being sent.
| | | (14) Posted by Ian Shanahan [Friday, Dec 4, 2015 21:42]; edited by Ian Shanahan [15-12-05] |
@Harry
QUOTE
I have no problem someone raising "certain issues" publicly, as we have nothing to hide. However before someone decides following that way, he should first clarify in private with the responsible (and authorised) persons. Otherwise he runs the risk to create confusion to others who are reading the forum.
Yes, of course. Apologies. However, when I was reading the announcement, I certainly wasn't thinking 'Who is responsible for this?'. Most people - like me - would simply have taken the announcement as given.
QUOTE
... for cosmetic reasons (i.e. to include the time schedule in it although the time schedule is already publicly available on the site).
The time schedule was not easy to find. As I wrote, I found it under the link to instructions to directors and judges. It wouldn't occur to anyone who is merely a potential entrant to look there: far easier to include it in the announcement itself.
QUOTE
If we do so, people may start thinking that something fishy is going on...
Are people really that paranoid?
QUOTE
The announcement intends to inform the composers about when and to who they should submit their entries, how many entries they are allowed to submit, what format they must use and so on. It was always like that in all album announcements so far.
... Which in no way precludes the possibility of improvement.
QUOTE
If we amend the announcement to include the time schedule, then we should also add the information how the compositions are going to be selected (there's not a single word in the announcement about the selection process).
Sorry Harry, but that's a non sequitur. I think that most problemists interested in submitting their compositions for inclusion in the FIDE Album are already well aware of the selection process. It would therefore be redundant to include it in an announcement.
QUOTE
I repeat, all this information is already available on the site on a dedicated page and in a separate PDF document.
Yes - "FIDE Album instructions", under the "Rules" tab in the WFCC home-page. Surely this would be much better situated under the FIDE Album tab? In any case, clicking on "FIDE Album instructions" takes us to "The FIDE Albums: Duties of Directors and Judges"!
QUOTE
With regard to your remark about the security settings of the PDF files that the composers will submit. I agree that some composers may be suspicious or afraid that the director may manipulate their entries (!!) and decide to submit protected PDF files.
It really saddens me that some composers might think this way.
QUOTE
The director will spot it when he tries to add the reference Nos. to those entries and obviously he will write back to them that he is not able to do so. The director will spot it when he tries to add the reference Nos. to those entries and obviously he will write back to them that he is not able to do so. Therefore it is self-evident that the composers must submit unprotected documents.
Surely it's far simpler - and not time-wasting! - just to instruct entrants to set PDF security settings accordingly, then to tell them why.
QUOTE
... We have already provided the necessary software and detailed technical instructions to the directors how they are going to do all that.
Where abouts? (It's not under the WFCC home-page's "Software" tab.)
| | | (15) Posted by Ian Shanahan [Friday, Dec 4, 2015 22:36]; edited by Ian Shanahan [15-12-05] |
@Joost
QUOTE
How can I veto publication of joint compositions in the FIDE album? I don't want to be in the album ...
That of course is your right. But should that right take precedence over the rights of a colleague who wishes to see their problem included in the appropriate Album (and thereby accrue points towards a title)? I don't believe so. The solution to this dilemma is to collaborate only with like-minded colleagues, where agreement is ascertained beforehand.
QUOTE
IMO a joint composition should only be allowed in the album if all authors agree to it being sent.
Agreed.
| | | (16) Posted by Kostas Prentos [Saturday, Dec 5, 2015 18:23] |
Joost, could you specify why you are so opposed to having your problems appear in the FIDE album? The book is primarily a collection of problems, even if it is also used for titles. You can refuse a title, if you reach that point from joint compositions (like Chris Feather, who has enough points for a title, even though he does not submit his problems to the Album, but he does not hold any titles, presumably because he has refused them).
It is true that there are some restrictions connected with the FIDE album selection, such as: "Anyone entering compositions by another composer should obtain the agreement of that composer beforehand". Although it is very uncommon for a third person to submit problems on behalf of a composer who does not wish to see them in the Album, this restriction seems like a reasonable compromise with the intention to protect the minorities and avoid conflicts. However, what it really does is to weaken the argument that the FIDE album is a collection of the best problems.
The way I see it, once a problem is published, it can be reproduced without the composer's permission in any other magazine, book, or online. Therefore, I would also give priority to Joost's co-author, who wishes to submit the joint composition, according to the FIDE album guidelines, that "A composer is entitled to submit joint compositions even if his co-author(s) disagree". This applies to composers who are against the FA concept, but also to those who want to keep a high quality level of submitted entries. I have been in Joost's place, even if for completely different reasons, and still agreed to submit certain joint problems, that I did not want to.
| | | (17) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Saturday, Dec 5, 2015 18:33] |
Joost's position I think is unreasonable. Best solution for him would be to avoid joint compositions.
| | | (18) Posted by shankar ram [Monday, Dec 7, 2015 02:54] |
>> "..some composers may be suspicious or afraid that the director may manipulate their entries (!!)..."
Once, a kind director actually _corrected_ one of my problems, before passing it on to the judges!! ;-)
| | | (19) Posted by Joost de Heer [Monday, Dec 7, 2015 08:51]; edited by Joost de Heer [15-12-07] |
QUOTE
Joost, could you specify why you are so opposed to having your problems appear in the FIDE album?
I'm 110% against anything that reduces chess problems to a list of numbers between 0 and 4, based on the whims and tastes of a judge.
I don't care if a joint composition is sent without my name, but I do object having my name used.
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