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MatPlus.Net  Forum General Circe, AntiCirce and Kamikaze combined rules |
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| | | (1) Posted by Vlaicu Crisan [Sunday, Nov 28, 2010 18:01] | Circe, AntiCirce and Kamikaze combined rules
Let's imagine a chess game with the following start: 1.d4 h5 2.Bh6 gxh6.
What is the position of wB and bPh6 looking like if we add a fairy condition:
A. Circe: wBc1, bPh6
B. AntiCirce: no wB, bPh6 -> h7
C. Kamikaze: no wB, no bP
Now let's combine these fairy conditions:
A+B. Circe & AntiCirce: wBc1, bPh7
A+C. Circe & Kamikaze: wBc1, no bP
B+C. AntiCirce & Kamikaze: no wB, bPh7
Are all these above assumptions correct? I need a confirmation in order to assess the [un]soundness of an original Proca Retractor problem, but that's an entirely different story!
| | | (2) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Sunday, Nov 28, 2010 18:19]; edited by Sarah Hornecker [10-11-28] |
Yes, seems correct to me!
| | | (3) Posted by Eric Huber [Sunday, Nov 28, 2010 19:18] |
I agree with A+B. Circe & AntiCirce: wBc1, bPh7 and with A+C. Circe & Kamikaze: wBc1, no bP.
However I have some doubts about the combination of AntiCirce and Kamikaze, because these are conflicting fairy conditions: according to AntiCirce, the capturing unit is reborn on its field of origin, while according to Kamikaze, the capturing unit disappears from the board. This is rather hard to reconcile! Therefore I would rather exclude the possibility of the AntiCirce & Kamikaze combination, but I am curious to learn what other fairy composers might have to say about this topic.
| | | (4) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Sunday, Nov 28, 2010 22:25] |
Of course there is no question of combining Anticirce and Kamikaze !
| | | (5) Posted by Joost de Heer [Sunday, Nov 28, 2010 23:02] |
My interpretation: Anticirce+Kamikaze: Capture is only legal if rebirth square for capturing piece is empty, capturing piece is removed after capturing.
| | | (6) Posted by Sarah Hornecker [Sunday, Nov 28, 2010 23:11]; edited by Sarah Hornecker [10-11-28] |
@Joost
Isn't that Anticirce Anti-Assassin and Kamikaze then?
(Italics are for better readability of fairy conditions)
Or maybe a distinction must be made between Anticirce & Kamikaze and Kamikaze & Anticirce.
| | | (7) Posted by seetharaman kalyan [Monday, Nov 29, 2010 19:30]; edited by seetharaman kalyan [10-11-29] |
<<My interpretation: Anticirce+Kamikaze: Capture is only legal if rebirth square for capturing piece is empty, capturing piece is removed after capturing.>>
This amounts to a new variation of Kamikaze chess. No point referring to Anticirce in this. Main feature of circe is rebirth of pieces during the capture.
| | | (8) Posted by Vlaicu Crisan [Wednesday, Dec 1, 2010 16:00] |
Why should we consider Kamikaze & Circe as not conflicting fairy conditions (in definition terms), but Kamikaze & AntiCirce as conflicting fairy conditions?
Let's consider the definition of Kamikaze = Both the captured and the capturing units (except a King) disappear.
According to the above definition, what happens with the captured piece in Kamikaze + Circe? Kamikaze says: "it disappears", Circe says: "is replaced on its rebirth square, if empty".
What happens with the capturing unit in Kamikaze + AntiCirce? Kamikaze says again: "it disappears", AntiCirce says: "it comes back to its rebirth square".
If we dismiss Kamikaze + AntiCirce as "conflicting fairy conditions", then the same logic must be applied for Kamikaze + Circe. More generally, Kamikaze and Circe family condition can never get married.
Is this second interpretation correct? As you can see, fairy chess theory can produce big headaches...
| | | (9) Posted by Joost de Heer [Wednesday, Dec 1, 2010 18:49]; edited by Joost de Heer [10-12-02] |
To confuse things even more, there's a fairy condition 'Kamikazecirce', where both captured and capturing piece are reborn. This is different than Anticirce+Circe by the way!
My interpretation is that Kamikaze deaths win over Circe births. Here is why:
Let's assume that order matters: First apply Anticirce: capturing piece is reborn. Next apply Kamikaze: Both captured and capturer are removed.
Next case: First apply kamikaze: Both capturing and captured piece are removed. Then apply Anticirce: Since the piece is already removed, it can't be reborn. So no rebirth.
Both cases lead to the same result, hence :AC+K/K+AC: A capture is only allowed if the rebirth square of the capturer is empty (due to Anticirce). After the capture, both the capturing and the captured piece are removed from the board.
QUOTE
Main feature of circe is rebirth of pieces during the capture.
No, main feature of circe is possible rebirth of pieces.
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